''We live in a world in which we need to share responsibility. Then there are those who see the need and respond. I consider those people my heroes.'' Give them ways to express their rage without hurting themselves. That's what the world needs.
Freddie`s World
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 23:46:33 (MST)
ahh, the observer finally speaks with its true intelligence
alvis
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 21:05:28 (MST)
Mr. Observer, I submitted the previous posting on your behalf. As an Anonomous contributer, you have no credibility here, even to those who may share your views. So you might as well be saying ......Blah Blah. Greg
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 21:01:11 (MST)
- Observer Post Removed -
funny..its called observer, it doesnt observe.... shows how "not" intellegent it is
alvis
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 16:06:13 (MST)
Honee...Don't you have a company to run. LOL!!!
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 15:24:12 (MST)
-----------ÒThe Legend of Captain BravoÓ----------------------------------------------- Long ago, there lived a sailor named Captain Bravo. He was a manly man's man, who showed no fear when facing his enemies. One day, while sailing the Seven Seas, his lookout spotted a pirate ship, and the crew became frantic. Captain Bravo bellowed, "Bring me my red shirt!" The First Mate quickly retrieved the captain's red shirt, and while wearing the brightly colored frock, the Captain led his crew into battle and defeated the pirates. That evening, all the men sat around on the deck recounting the day's triumph One of them asked the Captain, "Sir, why did you call for your red shirt before battle?" The Captain replied, "If I am wounded in the attack, the red shirt will not show my blood. Thus, you men will continue to fight, unafraid." All the men sat in awe and marveled at the courage of such a manly man's man. As dawn came the next morning, the lookout spotted not one, not two, but TEN pirate ships approaching. The crew stared in worshipful silence at the brave Captain and waited for his usual orders. Captain Bravo gazed with steely eyes upon the vast armada arrayed against his ship, and without fear, turned to the First Mate and calmly shouted, "get me my brown pants!"
Joe Campbell <vva324jfc@aol.com>
wauwatosa, WI USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 13:59:07 (MST)
>>>>>An Open Message to the Observer>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Don't speak unless you can improve on the silence for every word either invites or distances"!!!
Joe Campbell <vva324jfc@aol.com>
Wauwatosa, Wi USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 13:39:55 (MST)
Ho hum, Ho hum, Ho hum, Ho hum, Ho hum. Observer..you write in english, how come you don't understand it??? ou-ya are-na ot-na anted-wa on-na is-tha ite-sa. o-na ody-ba ares-ca any-na ore-ma!!! ou-ya uck-sa!! ale-ga
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 13:27:55 (MST)
- Observer Post Removed -
- Observer Post Removed -
- Observer Post Removed -
ALVIS: Thanks for the info! FRED and GALE: Thanks for the photos! Commo has gotten a bit heated lately, but one can hardly be surprised: all this constant war talk on t.v. is probably having a negative emotional effect on most combat vets, and things tend to come out sideways. I had to laugh at the news the other night about the eighty year old man in England who got his call-up orders from their DOD; it got me thinking about signing up for the coming conflict, but I also realized that I'd probably just slow things up on the trip to Baghdad Ñ they'd have to stop every couple of hours to let me pee...
Max Whittington
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 12:48:46 (MST)
Fred A. that is funny ROTFLMAO.
Rick England
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 12:39:11 (MST)
Just one more with a metaphor in the message (twice) ----------------------The Astute Donkey----------------- One day a farmer's donkey fell into an abandoned well. The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do. Finally, he decided the animal was old and the well needed to be covered up anyway; so it just wasn't worth it to him to try to retrieve the donkey. He invited all his neighbors to come over and help him. They each grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well. Realizing what was happening, the donkey at first cried and wailed horribly. Then, a few shovelfuls later, he quieted down completely. The farmer peered down into the well, and was astounded by what he saw. With every shovelful of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something amazing. He would shake it off and take a step up on the new layer of dirt. As the farmer's neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal, he would shake it off and take a step up. Pretty soon, the donkey stepped up over the edge of the well and trotted off, to the shock and astonishment of all the neighbors! Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt. The trick to getting out of the well is to not let it bury you, but to shake it off and take a step up. Each of our troubles is a steppingstone. We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping, never giving up! Shake it off and take a step up! Remember the five simple rules to be happy: 1. Free your heart from hatred. 2. Free your mind from worries. 3. Live simply. 4. Give more. 5. Expect less. Special Note: Also, the donkey kicked the shit out of the guy that tried to bury him. Which brings me to another moral for this story: When you try to cover your ass, it always comes back and gets you! Peace Brothers & Sisters - GB- Joe
Joe Campbell <vva324jfc@aol.com>
Wauwatosa, WI USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 11:11:47 (MST)
Brother Joe, Funny stories! Remind me of a similar one where the Boss goes out on the loading dock of his company to find a guy sitting on a pallet smoking a cigaret. Pissed off, the boss asks the guy "How much do you make? The guy answers "300 bucks a week". The boss peels off several bills and giving them to the guy says "heres a weeks pay, now get the hell out of here". After the guy leaves the boss goes to the forman and asks "how long has that ass worked here?" The forman replies "he doesn't, He was making a delivery". Ha Ha. To answer an earlier question from judith, I went to my first two years of High school at Brookfield Central and have some fond memories of Wisconsin. Hope you guys are snug. Gotta go to work, Regards, Greg
Animal
Puna , HI USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 10:53:14 (MST)
> > A man and a woman, who have never met before, find themselves >assigned to the same sleeping room on a transcontinental train. Though >initially embarrassed and uneasy over sharing a room, the two are tired and >fall asleep quickly-he in the upper bunk and she in the lower. > > At 2:00 AM, he leans over and gently wakes the woman, saying, >"Ma'am, I'm sorry to bother you, but would you be willing to reach into the >closet to get me a second blanket? I'm awfully cold." > > "I have a better idea," she replies. "Just for tonight, let's >pretend that we're married." > > "Wow! That's a great idea!!" he exclaims. > > "Good," she replies. "Get your own damn blanket." > >
alvis
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 10:38:03 (MST)
HELLO FLIGHT... HEY JOE LIKED WHAT YOU SAID FOR SO TRUE... WANT TO SAY HELLO TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS... MAY PEACE AND LOVE AND COMPASSION BE IN ALL OUR HEARTS FOR WE ALL ARE BROTHES AND SISTERS MY LOVE TO YOU ALL ...FOR IF NOT FOR TALKING TO YOU ALL I WOULD STILL BE THE WAS .. I WAS I THANK YOU ALL. A BROTHER ALWAYS CANT WAIT FOR JUNE..BE SAFE ALL RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 08:23:08 (MST)
Criticism There was an old man, a boy and a donkey. They were going to town and it was decided that the boy should ride. As they went along they passed some people who thought that it was a shame for the boy to ride and the old man to walk. The man and boy decided that maybe the critics were right so they changed positions. Soon they passed some more people who thought that it was a real shame for that man to make such a small boy walk. The two decided that maybe they both should walk. Soon they passed some more people who thought that it was stupid to walk when they had a donkey to ride. The man and the boy decided maybe the critics were right so they decided that they both should ride. They soon passed other people who thought that it was a shame to put such load on a poor little animal. The old man and the boy decided that maybe the critics were right so they decided to carry the donkey. As they crossed a bridge they lost their grip on the animal and he fell into the river and drowned. The moral of this story: If you try to please everyone, you will eventually lose your ass.
Joe Campbell <vva324jfc@aol.com>
Wauwatosa, WI USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 07:26:11 (MST)
Brother Mark and all my "Brothers: Sometimes in life we need just a little break and here is one for all to ejoy and share. Keep up the communication. We all have a lot to share and a lot to get over. This serves as a wonderful place to do Both. So here goes: It's called: "Give Me a BreakÓ I went to the store the other day, and I was in there for only about 5 minutes. When I came out there was a damn cop writing out a parking ticket. So I went up to him and said, "Come on, buddy, how about giving a guy a break?" He ignored me and continued writing the ticket. So I called him a pencil-dicked nazi. He glared at me and started writing another ticket for having worn tires! So, I called him a piece of horse shit. He finished the second ticket and put it on the windshield with the first. Then he started writing a third ticket! This went on for about 20 minutes... the more I abused him, the more tickets he wrote. I didn't give a shit. My car was parked around the corner. Try to have a little fun each day. It's really important!! God Bless us All, Brother Joe - Milwaukee
Joe Campbell
USA - Friday, February 28, 2003 at 07:19:41 (MST)
Mark, is Dee ok? Thats a wonderful lady u have there and wishes the best of health to her and to u .
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 21:34:15 (MST)
......No Fred...it wasnt "Your Crows feet"......or "Just Stoned to the Bone" that I saw in your eyes. It was the look of a Vietnam vet that sat in the Pop-A-Top, but was 10,000 miles away, and 30 years ago away. I love you "BROTHER".......as I said. I wasnt there. but I have seen that look to many times before, to not recognize it.The way I taught myself to recognize it, was to study the look of Larry's eyes in the photos that have been sent to me from his budies that were with him in Vietnam........I'm sorry for all of this.........always a brother,.........Mark.......Judith!!!!!!!!!....so nice to hear your voice tonight!!!!!!!!Love to you and Joe........................
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 21:08:41 (MST)
Freddie`s World well I guess not. But I`ve never been one "lost for words". Things has always came easy for me, when thrust in a "group situation". I could always emerge as a leader or top dog somehow. But today was a sometimes you get the bull and sometimes you get the horn day, and been building. I just couldn`t seem to make the 129th AHC easy. So everybody come back and heal up and move on with your lives. It`s almost like a cult rather than a brotherhood. And that`s not a insult for god sake. So I`ll let this go and we call it a TKO. Because I can`t change and I not one to feel sorry for myself. I love who I am....it serves me well. But it works agaist the grain for you all. Only thing that worries me is my eyes, Mark your sure thats not my "crows feet" or I was just "stone to the bone". Never been told that one before. So do what Greg said to do, the Hawaiian thing. Freddie`s World is done, but I`ll be back . I just got to take a break. I`m burned out on this, it`s to much work.
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 20:41:55 (MST)
Animal.....well then it's Ho's Pono Pono then.............you be the one that sent me the two sand blasted glass drops. You sent me a blue one called the Sea Turtle, and an red one called the rasin' sun. I wear them on my riding vest and am asked all the time where I got them and what do they mean. I say they are from you, but as to what they mean, as far as to me, they are priceless and there are no words I can say that can really explain what they mean to me. I went to the sight you sent in here to view your work. Wondering if I could comission you to do a piece for the Pop-A-Top. Something from your mind that you create on your own that would mean something that all of us would understand. Nam involved, brotherhood, and friends, Healing and the such..............always a "BROTHER".....Mark
Mark Jackson <gourfour@bright.net>
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 20:11:27 (MST)
The Hawaiians call it Ho'o pono pono. It means to come together and work things out. It ain't quick, it ain't easy, and it's not going to be all lovey dovey. What it is though, is healing, and the only ground rules are honesty and respect. On top of that, it's going to be painful,but like they say; "no pain no gain..." Some may not feel they need healing, but here they are, interacting and relevent. Lets thicken up our skin and not be so sensitive. The venting and emotions are important.whether we like to admit it or not this sight is a virtual group therapy session. As far as Bush Bashing goes, it comes with the turf. There hasn't been a president that I can remember who wasn't "bashed". So my Brothers, as my friend Aretha says:" R. E. S. P. E. C. T...sockittome,sockittome. Aloha, Greg
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 19:54:55 (MST)
....Well Freddie Boy......ya have finally done it this time. I have been setting back watching all the talk going on, along with receiving negative emails from others about how you tend to debate, or attack anything that anybody says in here and try to make them change their way to the life that is Freddies World. Hell man, I mentioned something about Rap...........................................................................................mmmmmmuuuss,,,,,huh.....sorry, just cant use those to words together, and you lectured me on that.............and you do, and have gave me lots of shit in here......that never offended me. I looked at you as a "BROTHER", something that you think nobody in here is, just because in Freddies world, you dont look at us that way. All these people , who now I am siding with , with their comments on this matter, and you, are my "BROTHERS and SISTERS"...you mentioned that these people in here are, "just good friends".....sorry to hear you say that Freddie. I have more love from this sight of brothers and sisters then I ever had in my life before from my real brother and sister. I love them, and they are my family. Instead of standing alone, you should open up and embrace us as brothers and sisters. We do to you. Try it, you might like it...This is the home of the 129th AHC. Not a place to debate anything.......and Freddie.....as far as you leaving Vietnam behind, you forget "BROTHER", I have met you, and have looked into your eyes. I saw it, you also, relive everyday.......so dont try and bullshit me about that. I wasnt there, but have met many that have been and have seen the look in your eyes. It always the same, distant. I saw it in yours.............................Lets all try and even the wieght out on the ship and fly striaght........the last month has saddened my heart and I know that Larry has not liked what has been going on either. he did not come to me for this place to end up in the disaray that it has. All that used to come in here, please come back. All that choose not to, thats ok also. But please continue to read the postings. This place was created for you all, and "IS" a place to come and heal..............I am not that smart of a guy, and do not claim to know all about everything, and have been puzzled and heart broken ever since this all has come about............I do not have the answer to everything and will never claim to, including this matter that has gone on in here. I really dont know what else to say about it. I just hope this senseless bickering will stop.....as I said. I am not the ruler of this place in space, I am only the creator, but hope and pray in the future that this place returns to the happy home that it was, I can not stop somebody from coming in here and saying what they want to. I will leave it up to all of your consciences to know when and what you are saying that might hurt somebody in here. If you have to, do that crap on the back channel........now if you dont mind, I have a very sick wife I need to tend to....................I am not mad at anybody, just disgusted and disappointed. This is not why I stared this place...............goodnight..........your "BROTHER".........Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 18:55:07 (MST)
what i said to u fred, i said as a brother, without anger.U do have a place here and i am glad u are here, as u have some good imput.Just please stop bashing people is all i ask.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 18:01:50 (MST)
max, great idea about the b- 52s,chuckle. "Pop a top" is a neighborhood bar , located in a small rural town in western ohio.Guess the largest town closest is muncie indiana.The bar has a "motiff" of helicopter and nam parafanaila.It has a flight suite on the wall,chicken plate, a rotor hanging from the cealing,along with a russian sks (1956) , a law,and many many more things.Most of the things there came from the 129th members and one spirtual part owner.you see max,the bar is owned by a fellow named mark. His brother is a 129th member.his brother,Larry,was kia within 24 hours of his 21st birthday.He had taken ray grangers place on that flight as a favor.ray had to be somewhere.you know how it was..one minute ur going to fly, the next u have to do something else.Pop a top is the spirtual home i guess, of the 129th.Mark and his wife are wonderful people that will greet you with a grizzle sized bear hug.There is no place in that bar u can look without seeing something the will stir a memory. Kokomo Indiana has a yearly reunion of nam vets, put on and hoasted by,nam vets.Last year,(please help me here folks) 13 thousand vets attenteded.Its in an old corn field, out in the country.Must have been a million flags flying,camp fires everywhere, groups of brothers, reunions, folks serching for there units and people they served with.It last ..maybe a week, not sure, i was there only 3 days.Those of us in here that were there,sat and stood around a campfire, sipping beers or drinks of choice. Lots of laughs,warm feeling and descussions of things of little value. Some even tried to fly a kite.There is live music there (good stuff too), vendors selling food, beer, hats,,, u name it.Most stay overnite in town,as the sanitation opitions are somewhat limited to "port a potties" and no bathing opitions at all.Surpriseing me, in all that drinking,there wasnt one bit of trouble.NONE. Security is there, but its pretty laid back.I cant remember the cost of entry,thinks it was like 5 or 8 bucks,earning a ribbon that allowed you entry all days after that.If you go. and we hope u do, u will need what u drink,some food perhaps,,tho they had one heck of a spread there already ( ty u all again for that). You might also include a rain coat and whatever u smoke.As i live only an hour away, i came home once a day to shower and take care of my animals.I did spend the night in my car too.>> cheap ass. there were vets from all over the usa there,lots of units.as a side note..the 173rd has a large group there also.They are grunts,but we dont hold that against them,,chuckle.There unit had many ops. where we did. They too have adopted PopaTOP has theirs.They hold a wonderful xmas party there with a standing invatation to 129th members. oh, the town pop a top is in, is Cold water ohio.Others in here can give u lots more info on kokomo, my knowledge is very limited on that subject.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 17:54:18 (MST)
Well maybe when I burn my bridges I burn them good. I have always had lots people that care about me. I think you probably feel better now getting all those things about me off your chest. Never really felt that welcome anyway, has nothing to do with anyone here. My life is good so I don`t need to keep finding a cause to champion. But I can`t deal with the stuff that goes down here. Thought for a while I was making a "break thru" it can never be the same after today. I join the "silent minority". Fred sounds like this did you some good, but it does nothing for me as far as healing. I did that along time ago. My Viet-Nam buddies warned me this could be a "double edge sword" and I should have listen.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 17:19:17 (MST)
OK, where's Kokomo, and what's Pop-a-Top? I gather one is a bar? I've been coming here about two months, now, and never have quite figured them out. I see GUYMAN is back; if someone can get me a GPS number for him, I have a couple of buddies in the intelligence community, and could maybe get on of those B-2s from Diego Garcia diverted eastward a bit... (grin)
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 17:12:01 (MST)
hmm, lots of stuff being said.lets see, u post in here, comment about us,then say dont take personally.no back bone and cowardness, hmm.We run away like frightened ignorant children.You stand alone cause ur tough and if anyone doesnt they soft and punks.You think the observer is funy when he bashes people for no reason,,kind people.you say let them go,who cares.you have made the ladies unwelcome here.they werent there and neither was mark, so mark shouldnt be here either? you have told me to watch my mouth.seems u do alot of telling to people espically when were all without backbones,moral courage,the ability to see ur point of view.Since when is compassion, love, caring,kindness, generousity and the milk of human kindness a fault and not a virtue? with out a doubt, u have earned u right to be here. So have all the others.If u truely believe all that crap u just spouted, then u are the worlds biggest fool.You havent learned a damn thing about being human.I used to be a biker. I am 6 foot, 220 pounds.i used to fight in bars,jail,didnt matter.I have been in 2 knife fights,and one gun fight.I cut a mans throat in 4 places ..justisfied, after he pulled a gun on my best friend and tried to shoot him, then attacked me with a bayonette.I have walked away from that kind of crap.Now fred, u are trying to do the same with a verbal knife.U try to kill peoples characters.U stand alone only cause u choose to.I find that the hugs and smiles of my BROTHERS in here to be of great personal warmth. excuse me.. and sisters.dont you dare tell people in here that they are spineless.Just who in the hell do u think u are to tell brothers to get out, or sisters.as many have said,this is a place of comfort,healing. reunions,and just a place to shoot the breeze between brohters. u dont want to be one, fine, but dont shove others out.You have a place here,and are welcome to it, but others do to ..without the need to be insulted, bashed or rediculed.if anyone hasnt told you..that sucks.perhaps u need to attend a reunion to feel the friendship and brotherhood. It didnt happen to me in louisville, but it sure did later in kokomo.fred, there is no need to stand alone in here as this isnt a place for that.we come in here to be together. Gently, welcome back.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 16:11:31 (MST)
Sure your right Gently.....I`m all that and more.....make sure you know your sources now.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 15:52:15 (MST)
well said ray. hope things going well for u buddy.We support you , all of us, do ray.No one wishes u but the best
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 15:28:08 (MST)
HELLO FLIGHT. HOW ARE YOU ALL DOING. NOT TO MAKE ANYANGRY BUT WHEN I FRIST CAME HERE THERE WAS SO MUCH LOVE BETWEEN US ALL IT WAS SO NICETO COME HERE I WISHED I COULD TAKE MY COMENT BCK ABOUT THE WAR YES I SUPORT MY BROTHERS THERE BUT I COME HERE FOR SUPORT AND FRIEND SHIP I GET SO STRESSED AT TIMES BUT I LOVE THIS SIGHT THAT MARK AND DEE MADE FOR US ITS SO GOOD TO COME HERE AND TALK TAKE CARE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ..A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 15:04:53 (MST)
Our not posting is not about lack of self-esteem or confidence or any other sequence of words you want to put together thinking you are making us feel small. We came to this site to meet others with a common bond, to heal, to share, to make new friends, and re-visit old friends. It was a place of fun, sharing, family, and support. Some of you have changed that. You have used it to grandstand about yourself and stick your opinion down the throat of anyone who voiced an opinion that wasn't the same as yours. It's very boring! Write your opinions to the editor of your local newspaper. We want our site to be what is was, not what you have selfishly made it. Presently,I find it to be an boring, angry place, an unwelcoming place...but that has to stop. If letters to the editor don't satisfy your need to boast and rag, then go to a site that welcomes your boring, selfish, angry, self-rightous one-sidedness. This site is not for trashing our friends, nor trying to prove that everything you say is the way it is. Nor is it a place to cause anger. Additionally, Fred Skaggs, it was not your place to post my email to you on the web, but that shows how insecure you are. I sent that to you off the web to settle some things because I didn't/don't feel the web is the place for heated arguements. Apparently others don't either. I was tempted to post your unbelievably angry response to me, but I am not that insecure and didn't need to see how many friends I have out there, which is what I read as your reason. Now people, several of you have voiced our need to get back to what we were, and I'm going to do my part. We cannot let the "mouths" get in the way of the healing and friendship this site brought us. Please continue to post and ignore their postings. It is the way back. As Mark always says, "I wasn't there but I still care." And I do also. You know that. It breaks my heart to see whats been going on here. We're adults not spoiled insecure children. It's a place of peace and if you can't get into that, well, we'll just ignore you. So, post if you want to, but we're not going to read your posts. We're not going to read them-we're not going to read them. Back to normal flight--back to normal. With a smile on my face and a skip in my step-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 14:53:50 (MST)
Gale....Good lord I think you know that none of that was directed at you. You yourself get kick out of my crazy ways, I know you do....This morning you made me feel like a kid...Kim and Freddie get in the corner and take a time out, you guys are kickin Boy George in the ass to much. Ted`s taken his ball and went home unhappy. Sure I`m a nice guy, nicest guy I know!!! And I know I make you laugh....don`t take shit so personal.....or I`ll debate you on that....e-mail me your phone number
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 14:47:24 (MST)
Freddie, what are we gonna do with you? I've talked to you before(even backed you on a few things) and you seem like a decent fella, but, I just don't know where you're comin' from. Now, I'm not even gonna attempt to debate you cause you would eat me up and spit me out. I'm not gonna debate anyone, but, that doesn't mean that I'm weak or without a backbone. If I was as intelligent and talented as you seem, I would be some place else trying to get the action that you want. This wasn't meant to be a debate forum for cryin' out loud. We are all over 50 and if we haven't learned how to handle ourselves yet.....come on, you sound like your preaching to bunch of kids here. If that's the way you are....fine, so be it,but, please don't catagorize the rest of us. You are welcome on here the same as the rest of us and we don't want to lose anyone. Every one of us have a different life and everyone doesn't debate things. The fact that you enjoy it doesn't make you any wiser than the rest of us and having a backbone is not quite as important to me as having compassion for people, including the brothers & sisters on this site. Freddie, I thought that we left the enemy in Nam.....at least I did. Remember that no one in here wants to be your enemy. Clear, Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 14:18:48 (MST)
Fellas, I noticed all the commo going on since Ted made his statement. That is great what he has to say, that`s what he feels in his heart. Ted will be back, believe me, he will be back. This is a addiction, it just takes a different form, that`s all. But no matter where I`ve been in the world, and I`ve been some places, I`ve been able to stand alone. No matter where I was, if the Germans had something to say to me and I didn`t like it, I let them know it. Same with the Spanish or Dutch or Italians or the French it didn`t matter I say what I feel. And I stood alone most the time. I`m not gonna be a punk or some candy ass that compromises. People will walk all over you if person makes compromises. You got to have a backbone in this world. I learn that at a early age. When I first got on this web-site I came on strong and found out very quickly that I stand alone here. Now there was a couple of people that came and stood beside me. There are guys on the web-site that I was with in Nam, that took a stance of," Man...Fred can`t say that". But I still liked them, because I knew where they were coming from. Things don`t change that much, really it don`t. People are pretty much the same as they were 30 some years ago, just more set in their ways. But I`ve always been smart enough to figure out that there is something in every guys personality that you can "lock into" and get conversation of something in common besides Viet-Nam. Now some of the ladies and gentlemen run that back channel and say they don`t feel welcome on the web-site, now because someone challeged a opinion or a statement they made. That`s a self-esteem problem or self-confidence thing or some sort of weakness. Don`t back away...re-enforce your opinion stand up for what you believe in. When I see a weakness in something like that I`m going for the kill emotionally. That`s just way I am. I`m not changing for anything or any reason. Now on the "flip side" of that I get e-mails and have phone conversations with guys I was with and new people who like my writing style and how I "stand and deliver". They also state that "It`s not the 129th I served in". They don`t want to sign in because maybe they are more thoughtful than me. That has happen before....But to "tiptoe around issues" and "weigh what I say" is not gonna happen. If you want to debate me on a issue because you don`t like what I say, lets go no problem. But remember I`ll be direct and say what I feel. I hate a loser and I`m not going to be one. You all probably look a this see alot of anger, it has nothing to do with anger,if you were sitting beside me you would see I`m quite calm. It`s just the way I articulate in order to get my point across. And I`m not leavin to go nowhere, as far as the web-site is concerned. But I am not a follower and I don`t live in the past, that`s history. I fought the same war you guys did and I have different opinion of it. I just moved on and did something with my life. Mr.Observer what can you say, I think he`s funny.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 13:40:04 (MST)
Has anyone heard from Ron Paye, Barry Winkler, Joe Johnson, Glen Pearmain, Rainer Bauer, Darwin Schmeidt,Ron Debates,Ted Gustafson,Dan Hertlein, Jim Hydinger.........how 'bout guys, you'all still out there. Check in once in a while !? Gale
Gale <beardatpaige1@cs.com>
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 13:07:13 (MST)
chuckling at max's joke. Now thats a great comeback.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 12:10:26 (MST)
...disparaging..."
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 11:53:58 (MST)
ALVIS: My late father was with the 1st Marines Division at Guadalcanal, New Britain, New Georgia, etc. My mother was in the Women Marines during WWII, and is active (at age 79) in the Women Marines Association. Neither ever said one diparaging thing about my service in Vietnam, nor have any of their WWII veteran friends. In fact, my dad was eager for me to visit him in Alabama, so "I can show you off..." to his VFW club members. By the way, when Marines chide me about having two Marines as parents and *only* joining the Army, I tell them "Sorry, but I didn't qualify for the Marines Ñ my parents were married."
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 11:52:43 (MST)
good to see u posting gale, and u to jim.Thanks for the info. Sighs, yes jim , i remember that staemand cream. I spent many a happy 10 or 20 there, and i dont mean minutes.I remember going there once,every one was somehow intocecated,and we made bets on would get the ugliest woman there.and we tried to win. whew, thinks i had to get shots for 3 days after that episode.Mine was so ugly, u had to hide ur watch, or it would run backwards.It may have been frankinstiens ugly sister now that i think about it. whoo hoo, bon song bombers.15 cent beers,25 cent hard drinks, whata place. gale, my friend goes to the american consulate in sydney australia march 10th.We hope her visa will be approved then.Its been a very expensive and long process.Seems immergration has been flooded lately, and 911 has really slowed things down.( even at my own personal cost, i approve and thinks its been to long in coming) hopefuly she will be here for kokomo. We have already discussed she being there.I think she would have had a ball. Atlanta?, who knows,its still possiable i wont make it.Time needs to get closer b4 that decesion can be made.If I understand correctly, Australia vets also didnt get the welcome home their fathers did. speaking of that, any of u get told by ww2 vets that "our" war wasnt crap and that we were just a bunch of cry babies. I havent heard that for a few years.It seemed to me, that it isolated us even more.perhaps it was just jealousy at their passing of the tourch. never understood that one.My father, who is/was a vet of ww2 ans korea,was very ,very proud. My uncle,a vet of korea and vietnam, took the cry babies statement to heart.Maybe it was because he was a cornel( forgive my spelling) in a engineer outfit,r.e.m.f. who saw fighting only at the offericers club, if there. ahh, i degress, sorry .I guess what i am trying to say is that familes were even divided by that war.Seems the only other time that happened was the civil war.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 11:31:16 (MST)
RICK: In the same vein as your "prayer": I was once asked what I would write in a "personals ad." I came up with: "Tall thin manic depressive seeks oversexed female pharmacist." Today I'd look for a lady veterinarian who likes to fish.
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 11:29:05 (MST)
TINNITIS: Soon after returning from Vietnam, I had some trouble with my hearing. I was told at the base hospital that the main cause for helicopter crew members getting tinnitis was sitting alongside the transmission for long periods of time. Gunners and crew chiefs tended to be more prone to it than pilots, for obvious reasons. They thought I had it, but it turned out that I had developed large plugs of wax in my ears, which may have saved my hearing. WAR STUFF: My opinion was best expressed by Sir Galahad: "Might for right." 'Nuff said. WEATHER (PORTLAND, OR): I was over at my parent's place yesterday; daffodils were blooming; new lawn is up and my stepfather just mowed it! Mildest winter I can remember.
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 11:10:20 (MST)
Alvis, yeh I've got it in both ears. Sounds like the screeching that you get when you're getting on the internet.....or maybe the screeching of my two ex-wives. Pretty simliar. Speaking of that Alvis, how's things with "Australia". Anything goin' on buddy? Maybe we can meet her at Kokomo !? ;o) Gale
Gale
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 10:41:36 (MST)
It warmed up a little here( but not enough for body-surfing) (more jealousy) , Thanks Alex, for what you have written. Personally, I think That if you havn't got the testes to sign what is written, it doesn't belong here. I hate to think of anyone leaving this site because of some of those things, If you do that, it protects you from what is there but deprives us of you. I have been posting a little less, but I am not gone, I read every day. I realize I have no business in this political stuff on this site & so will stay away from that subject & some other things. Suffice it to say that, i still get that sense of belonging here. There is something as my friend Fred Alvis has said that trancends all this that passes between us (can't explain it, just know it's there). The Purpose of this site, i believe, is to be a place of healing. " Tinnitus" is a constant ringing in your ears that doesn't go away. To get it in the ville, you refuse to pay that little cutie & she bangs you real hard in the side of the head with a frying pan ( almost happened to me). does anyone/or everyone remember that little steam bath place in the ville? Really used to like it there. Be kind to each other--- that's something few of us have had enough of--- because a lot of us were treated like dirt when we came back, the way through that is not to do it to one another now. As Paul McCartney said " And in the end, The LOVE you Take--- is equal to the LOVE you MAKE. Love & respect, Smitty
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
sheridan, Wy. USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 10:40:52 (MST)
that ear thing bothers me sometimes also.I never really knew what might be the cause of it. Anyone remember spraying solvent into a running lycoming turbine engine as it was run up to full throttle? Kneeling on the engine deck,head close to engine, and way to close to whirling rotor blades? I remember it being so loud, i acutualy coundt think.It was overwhelming.I sometimes wonder if that ear thing came form that source.its not constant,or even daily, but when it comes,its very loud.Kinda like a telephone.Is that what u guys mean?
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 10:24:10 (MST)
Gale it must have been the clapping I just got carried away. HEHEHE*****check this out***** A GIRLS PRAYER Lord, Before I lay me down to sleep, I pray for a man, who's not a creep, One who's handsome, smart and strong, One who's loves to listen long, One who thinks before he speaks, When he says he'll call, he won't wait weeks. I pray that he is gainfully employed, And when I spend his cash, he won't be annoyed. Pulls out my chair and opens my door, Massages my back and begs to do more. Oh! send me a man who'll make love to my mind, Knows what to answer to "How big's my behind?" One who'll make love till my body's a'twitchin, In the hall, in the garden and in the kitchen! I pray that this man will love me to no end, And never attempt to hit on my friend. A GUY'S PRAYER: Lord, I pray for a nympho with huge boobs who owns a liquor store and likes to fish. Amen
Rick England
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 10:10:38 (MST)
Alex, very well put. Rick, I think that you better look up the definition of tinnitus ole buddy if you think you "contacted" it in the vill. ;o] Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 10:03:55 (MST)
Flight: This is not a political site. The is a site where we come to visit with brothers, family of and friends of the 129t AHC. The site is here for everyone to enjoy. We fought our War!! but, this isn't the place to fight another. Let's get back to what this site was designed for members, family, friends of the 129thAHC. And to the OBSERVER!!! I think you need to write President Bush and his people!! They make care what you have to say!! But, this group of real men don't!! Even though we have our own thoughts on the world events, I don't think this is the place to air them. We have each others email for that. Thanks My Brother Alex This is not to offend anyone . Just some advice,so we have our site for all to enjoy. And not feel that they have to leave.
Alex <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, Tn USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 09:45:46 (MST)
Gale I didn't know the blades had anything to do with it. I always thought it was sneaking out to the vill. or stoping at the car wash. HEHEHEHE
Rick England
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 09:42:17 (MST)
Good work Rick. I've had tinnitus for a couple of years now. I'm sure that the clapping of the blades had something to do with it. One of my problems was cracking my skull against the rotor heads all the time, as I'm sure others did. I'm thankful though that I don't have any hearing loss yet. Great joke Rick. LOL Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 09:06:47 (MST)
I will keep you up to date if I hear more.******* 3. COURT DECIDES TINNITUS COMPENSATION ELIGIBILITY The United States Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims has announced a decision in the case of Wanner v. Principi. At issue was whether service connection or compensation for tinnitus should be allowed only for "head injury, concussion or acoustic trauma." The Court held that persistent tinnitus, no matter how it was acquired during service, entitles a veteran to compensation under the rating schedule. Accordingly, in claims for service connection for tinnitus filed before June 10, 1999, including those now on appeal, claimants will now be entitled to service connection without regard to how the tinnitus was acquired. The court did not decide whether veterans are entitled to separate ratings for service-connected bilateral tinnitus (tinnitus in each ear).
Rick England
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 08:56:24 (MST)
This a good one with a laugh. The Astute Donkey********** Please read all of this!************* One day a farmer's donkey fell into an abandoned well. The animal cried piteously for hours as the farmer tried to figure out what to do. Finally, he decided the animal was old and the well needed to be covered up anyway; so it just wasn't worth it to him to try to retrieve the donkey. He invited all his neighbors to come over and help him. They each grabbed a shovel and began to shovel dirt into the well. Realizing what was happening, the donkey at first cried and wailed horribly. Then, a few shovelfuls later, he quieted down completely. The farmer peered down into the well, and was astounded by what he saw. With every shovelful of dirt that hit his back, the donkey was doing something amazing. He would shake it off and take a step up on the new layer of dirt. As the farmer's neighbors continued to shovel dirt on top of the animal, he would shake it off and take a step up. Pretty soon, the donkey stepped up over the edge of the well and trotted off, to the shock and astonishment of all the neighbors!*************** Life is going to shovel dirt on you, all kinds of dirt. The trick to getting out of the well is to not let it bury you, but to shake it off and take a step up. Each of our troubles is a steppingstone. We can get out of the deepest wells just by not stopping, never giving up! Shake it off and take a step up! Remember the five simple rules to be happy:******** Free your heart from hatred.******* Free your mind from worries.******* Live simply.*********** Give more.******** Expect less.********* Also, the donkey kicked the shit out of the guy that tried to bury him. Which brings me to another moral for this story: When you try to cover your ass, it always comes back and gets you.************Flight be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 08:44:50 (MST)
Observer, advance and be recognized or keep your opinions out of here. This has all gotten out of hand and I agree with Alvis....we don't need you adding fuel to the fire. If you are a brother of the 129th let us know, otherwise, go spread your crap somewhere else. You won't break us up for we have a far deeper agenda you do! Sorry Ted, Kim, Freddie and others.....what say we chill Brothers! Clear, Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 08:30:29 (MST)
thank you rick. I do hope to truely see u again. Its a warm memory of you, ted, gale,mark,ted, ron,gently,elizabeth,and wives, hubbies, all at the reunion.Hopes more come to the next one,as i think it made us closer,reconeted, whatever.Cool breezes to you my friend, sitting there in that warm sun.enjoy, more snow here today and more this weekend.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 08:27:03 (MST)
why dont u get over it observer.No one comes here to get bashed or made a fool of.if u must target some one, then aim at me. Your comments to ted, offend me, your out of there, indeed. A hammer has 2 uses, to build thigs, or to tear things apart.lets build.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 08:19:46 (MST)
Thats a good metaphor FRED A. Remember,a helicopter has to have weight on both sides to fly evenly. Lets not crash folks. We can't lose our CG.
Rick England
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 08:18:30 (MST)
as far as iraq goes, I feel like I want to stick Saddam in the eye with a stick.I just dont want to look like a bully.People forget He did caused terrible things in Kuwait.Taking child life support nachines right out from under babies, burning wells,stealing anything of value.He has gassed the kurds,killing thousands.He brings grandchildren into jails, gouges out their eyeball in front of grandparents toget confessions.We know the bozo of bagdag has ties to ben L.Anyone ever have anything stolen, you know who did it,but, cant prove it? Kinda how i feel about this. now, something more dear to my heart. I have gotten e mails from a few brothers that arent happy here anymore,or dont feel comfy anymore.The sisters dont feel welcome .I, for one,hopes they all come back and post.I shared a lot of damn good fellowship with folks up in Kokomo, it opened something in me.This site was responseable for the first crack in that door.I think Ray granger has gotten lots of support out of here. We all came together.(Ray, I hope that doesnt offend you).I for one , am trying now to keep my post light,unofenseive and positive. We do all have a right to our opinions.Perhaps we just shouldnt shout them tho. Hmm,lots of rough edges around here now,havent seen a sister post in ages.Remember,a helicopter has to have weight on both sides to fly evenly. Lets not crash folks.
alvis
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 08:11:41 (MST)
- Observer Post Removed -
HELLO FLIGHT..JUST SAYING HELLO TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS..TED I KIND OF AGREE WITH YOU BUT THINK IF WE ARE GOING TO DO IT LET DO AND DONT STOP TILL WE FINISH HIM OFF... WELL THATS MY 2 CENTS WORTH ..TAKE CARE ALL A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 06:56:24 (MST)
Status of Reservatuins for flight from Valdosta Ga. to PSp Ca, March 10th 2003 What time do I need to be at airport
Joseph E. Cox <joecox195earthlink.net>
Quitman, Ga USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 04:43:20 (MST)
I concede, It seems the "Bush bashers" have succeeded in taking over the commo here, so I'm outa here. Heard enough of this shit during Viet Nam. If Saddam and his Islamic cohorts plant a suitcase nuke in this country, dust your ass with anthrax, or poison your water supply with some other chemical or biological agent,you will be the first to whine about the administration "Not doing anything to protect you". Mark, thanks for trying to make a page where we could all come together as veterans with a common background, the 129th. For some of the rest of you, "You lost the election, GET OVER IT" BYE
Ted Buisker
Davis, IL. USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 04:29:39 (MST)
Fred Alvis....You`re awfully mellow this days....LOL.....Bright lights and sunshine must be in the mix.....it`s a good thing my friend.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, February 27, 2003 at 03:50:20 (MST)
laughing at kims post, and agreeing with second half. some good points there.
alvis
USA - Wednesday, February 26, 2003 at 23:29:18 (MST)
Two elderly gentlemen from a retirement center were sitting on a bench under a tree when one turns to the other and says, "Sam, I'm 83 years old now and I'm just full of aches and pains. I know you're about my age. How do you feel?" Sam says, "Well, I feel just like a new-born baby." "Really!? Like a baby!?" "Yep. No hair, no teeth, and I think I just wet myself."
alvis
USA - Wednesday, February 26, 2003 at 21:44:51 (MST)
Body surfing in February...no big deal, we do it in Maine, all winter! Just get going out of control, on the ski slope! Skis go one way, poles go another,goggles, hat, gloves, all disappear, slide on your stomach for a few hundred yards, climb back after your gear, listen to everyone on the lift laughing at you....and go do it again! what as the lament on the shithouse wall??/ We the unwilling, are here to do the unnecessary, for the ungrateful, at the request of the uncaring????? I feel a little hypocritical, how do I support the soldiers, when I don't support their cause??? As more information comes out, I hope I'll hear the proof that it WAS necessary to go after the Iraqi regeim. There's a saying...to know what's right, and not act accordingly, is to want for courage...Kang Foo Ju...Confucius...we've all been there, at one time or another....shithead is talking right now...it's my fervent hope that he and his cronies let Colin Powell run the show..Light casualties, a quick fight, and get to hell out of there, as quietly as possible
Kim
USA - Wednesday, February 26, 2003 at 17:34:00 (MST)
I agree with you animal. I do want to support the troops that are there and are ready to leave. I have some addresses of about 4 or 5 over there now an will be sending some goodie boxes. If anybody intrested bc me an I will give you those addys.
Rick England
USA - Wednesday, February 26, 2003 at 07:33:56 (MST)
Animal(Greg)......well spoken my friend and like you I support our soldiers, but I can`t seem to find it in my heart to support Bush and his Croonies....And nobody is going to jail for Enron and the likes. BODY SURFING in February......Man I envy you.....Livin the life.....you deserve it my friend
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 23:11:47 (MST)
Fred Alvis....I love that sound track of "Crossroads". Steve Vai did all the guitar work. My favorite song is "They Call Me Willie" . Fred.....I relate to being paraded around and everyone wanted a piece of you. Kinda like "The New Kid In Town" and in reality.....you were a new kid and alot different than when you left. I remember my "buddies" takin me to the "frat house" on campus. They wanted to be the first ones to have a "token" Nam Vet.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 23:01:52 (MST)
Aloha, As this war approaches, we're going to be hearing a lot more from the people protesting it. I feel strongly against it myself, as I felt strongly against the Vietnam war. Alhough I was against the war, I did my best to support my fellow soldiers while in country and had no doubts about my personal role until I came home. It took me a long time to get over it, but I finally have. It wasn't the soldiers who fought the war that made it wrong, but the people who profited by it. In spite of what I've just stated, I don't feel that Larry or the thousands of others that gave their lives, died in vain. I have a great love for this imperfect country we live in, and it takes many different points of view to make a free society. So while I feel obligated to speak against this upcoming war, I will always speak highly of the soldiers fighting to keep ME free to speak my mind. The government has already started limiting our personal freedoms. Pretty soon they are going to start taking money from education, health care, the arts, and who knows what else, to finance the war. Now, what I'm wondering is who's going to profit the most from these diverted funds? Our brave troops, or our bloated weapons industry? My personal solution to our dilemma(simplified)is to develop alternative fuels:Hydrogen,solar,Bio,geothermal etc. The technology is here. Let the middle east wallow in their own mess. Let the Arabs send US their cash for our levis and technology, instead of us making them powerfull because we're addicted to their oil. The reason this isn't likely to happen, is our current leaders are ALL in the oil or weapons industry. I think the point I was trying to make when I started this is not to think of war protesters as being unpatriotic or chickenshits. This country was founded on dissent. Well thanks my brothers for letting me say that, and yes, I did go bodysurfing today. With respect, Greg
Animal
Puna , HI USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 23:01:50 (MST)
personally, i think of the 129th as brothers.we shared what few otheres did.There is a bond that links most of us. lsd, cocaine,mushrooms,catus,speed,herion, and more.I didnt want to think about what i had been thru.Was back 3 days and started putting a neddle in my arm.took me a good 10 years to get thru it,lay the drugs down and walk away.been to aa,na metting in the past.Even went 5 years once, clean, dry and sober.did the drugs mess my mind up?or was it vietnam?We each had our own journey there,a slightly diferent path. I didnt go for college,i went cause my country called. War was pretty heady stuff for me back then, did i have what it takes and so on.I smile at my lost innocence.I am thankfull for my " band of brothers" here.Some of the poisin can be let go, most understand.I dont think of all nam vets as brothers,but i feel the 129th are.I know that if i needed help,someone out there would try, if even nothing more than moral suport.I know its there and from people that shared exactly what i did.There is a bond between smitty and i that transends the concept of brother.Hell, my real brother paraded me around like a dangerous pet.he and some other friends, fed off what i/ we had been thru.When i first got back, i couldnt hang with friends that were still innocent, something had passed.i wasnt comfortable anymore.I got so damn tried of that same question..did u kill anyone? and its still ask today.jesus christ.wonders where the sisters post are at? do they not feel welcome anymore? personally, i think they round off some of some very rough edges, course that just might be me. hey fred scaggs, u ever hear the sound track to the movie cross roads? its from about earlt 80s or so.Love the blues music in it, one of my favorites.its "delta" blues and not a bad movie either. hey gale and smitty...chuckle, i took pics of those daffodills,so i know i wasnt brain dead at the time.chuckle.Observer, dang that was some long winded stuff.had shorter ca's than that. and to those i met at kokomo, i dang sure consider u friends as well as brothers.As i said b4, we might bicker and argue, but woe be the one that trys to come between any of the 129th.I think its kinda like a family here.shrug, but then, i am also a hopless romantic. we find blue skies wherever we can i suppose. Mark, ty for making this site possible
alvis
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 21:53:56 (MST)
FRED SKAGGS,That would be 26 BILLION...with a "B"....AND we sold out the Kurds in the North to the Turks as part of the deal. Remember the Kurds after the 1st Gulf War? Daddy Bush told the people of Iraq to rise up to overthrow Saddam. Well the Kurds in the North and the Shites in the south did just that. They rebeled...we gave them ZERO support...Huusein crushed them....then we established the NO FLY ZONES. Since then the Kurds have lived autonomously for about twelve years...established their own system of government, education and so on. Dubya Bush just sold the Kurds out to the Turks with the recent deal by agreeing that the Turks may send their own troops into Northern Iraq, not to fight Saddam, but to crush the Kurds again, keeping them from establishing their own independent Kurdistan. You see, there are Kurds living in the bordering areas of Turkey and the Turks don't want the Kurds to get carried away with this "Democracy Bullshit"....Does anyone really wonder why folks across the globe resent the foreign policy of the US? Seems the US has done this kind of thing many times before...encourage well meaning folks of the world to take up arms against an oppressor (And US enemy)then dump them when their usefulness to Uncle Sam is exhausted. Can anyone say "Montongard" (forgive the spelling please). One step further back in Vietnam's history...The US encouraged and supported the Vietnamese to rise up against the Japanese invaders during WWII. They did. Mission accomplished by a group of Nationalistic freedom fighters called the "Vietmihn"...led by none other than Ho Chi Mihn! Immediately after the conclusion of WWII, Uncle Sam gave the green light to France to retake it's pre-WWII colony. When the Vietmihn and Ho said "NO..we liberated Vietnam from the Japanese for the Vietnamese, Not for the French!"....and the war was on. After Ho and company kicked France's ass out, the US picked up where France left off.......So once again we are setting up a situation where we buddy up to a nation or culture, take what we want and then sell them out. Not too hard to figure out why the international consensus is that Uncle Sam can't be trusted. .......Don't misunderstand where I'm coming from here....I strongly support what our country stands for, I'm not very sure how much is left of what we stand for. MY COUNTRY, RIGHT OR WRONG. BE IT RIGHT, KEEP IT RIGHT. BE IT WRONG, MAKE IT RIGHT!
Fred Brown <FJBuffalo@Yahoo.com>
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 21:27:14 (MST)
Fred S. OK. I understand better where you are comming from. I did not mean to imply that all Army or Vietnam Vets deserve to be called Brother, but I don't think any person on the 129th web-site has tried to kill me, lie to me, cheat me or violate my trust. Anyway enough said. Take care. I"M CLEAR!!! Frank.
Frank Loveday <bluecobra@dav.net.>
Bastrop, La. USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 20:42:26 (MST)
Damn....26 billion... you all knew what I meaning....just got me upset.....
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 20:37:11 (MST)
Thank You Jeff........Animal..I guess Mr. Observer is getting a little "long winded", but they appear to be articles and interviews with points well made. The winds of war are getting closer, so he`s making a point. The anti-war sentiment is growing......26 million to Turkey and our economy is going down the tubes. 26 million could sure support a "national health care program". Half that would sure prop up our VA health system. Food for thought....Only took the Bush Admin. 20 days from 9/11 to write the 400 page Homeland Security Document that circumvents our civil rights......nothing moves that fast in Washington. That shit was being written before 9/11...... and nobody even knows completely what it says......isn`t this the government for the people and by the people.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 19:52:40 (MST)
FREDDIE, YOUR LAST WAS WELL SAID!
JEFF SAUERS
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 19:09:49 (MST)
Mr.(?) Observer, I'm sure you have some interesting ideas, but if you want me to read them, you should shorten them up a bit. Greg
Animal
HI USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 18:57:19 (MST)
GEEZE OH MAN!!
Gale
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 18:38:43 (MST)
- Observer Post Removed -
- Observer Post Removed -
Frank L......... Brother-1) A male having 1 or both parents in common with another individual. 2) A fellow man or a male friend. 3) A lay member of a men`s religious order. Brotherhood-1) The state or quality of being brothers. 2) An association, as a fraternity, united for a common purpose. 3) The whole body of persons in a profession or trade........ Frank, that`s all good what you say....But I just related a experience in life, that would give you and everybody else a little insight what motivates me sometimes. That doesn`t mean that I have a "bad attitude". I have plenty of Vet-Nam veteran friends, but Nam was never our total common thread, we truly liked and cared for each other. To say we never talked about Nam would be a lie, but it was never our topic of conversation. I never stopped and helped a "homeless vet" because "he`s my brother". I did it because that`s what you`re suppose to do as a good human being on this earth. I never respected NCO`s or Officer`s when I was in the Army because that`s what they were. I respected the for the person they were and the leadership quality that they displayed in a given situation. Not all our NCO`s and Officer`s were "Born Leaders". As bad as I hate to admit it, but "stereotypes" tend to be exactly how you see it. The army and Viet-Nam was just a means in which to get to where I wanted to be in life. There is a price that a person pays in order to get what they want in life. Viet-Nam service was just the price I paid to get a free college education. That`s all it was. I always viewed Nam as the "worse job" I ever had. And I did it to best of my ability and college was my payment.....maybe a new car also. But the people I mention in my story, they were not my brothers. They lied, they stole, they cheated and violated people`s trust. That`s not a brother....that`s not a friend. Another little issue here....The people that "fragged" the 129th company area back then, were they our brothers? They tried to kill us, but they are our brothers. There is "good friends" on the web-site, that I knew 33 years ago, and they are still good friends that I would do anything within my power to help them if needed, but brothers. One person on this web-site would even know who I am if they were to see me, Mark Jackson, that`s it. Maybe that`s why I give him so much shit....he met me...And I guess you could say I`m his friend. So Frank that`s just me, and I`m not gonna change. I hope we have a good understanding, because there isn`t anything in this world better than a good understanding.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 13:10:04 (MST)
Fred S. As i'm sure you know, there are many definitions to the word Brother. a few of them are: a class of individuals of the same kind, profession or occupation. An association of men united for the same purpose, and many more i'm sure, anyway all my Brothers & Sisters of the 129th be carefull, take care. I'M CLEAR!!! Frank.
Frank Loveday <bluecobra@dav.net.>
Bastrop, La USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 10:38:13 (MST)
Animal, I agree...you are very talented. Also, thanks for looking up Nazarro. There's one listed in Alaska...maybe I'll check it out. Gale
Gale
Clinton, In US of A - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 09:57:23 (MST)
Animal(Greg), you are extremely talented. My wife and I love Tiffany lamps, but to get a original would cost a "arm and leg". We`ve bought original native american art in Santa Fe. And we bought orignal oil`s from Spain and Italy when we were in europe. Get that "bug" out of your computer, so I can "RAP" to you about some of your lamps and work you`ve done.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 08:25:31 (MST)
Animal(Greg) so you`re a artist, that`s great. Fred Brown is a artist also, seems the creative types are more open to change and new things....like music. I get along great creative types and my "blue collar" union buddies. I like Kid Rock he puts out some great stuff....I like Fred Durst of Limp Bizkit. Yea I got alot of music in my collection and I spend alot of money too. But that`s my hobbie, stereo eguipment and music. Plus when living in Europe, my wife and I "hung out" with Twenty and Thirty something`s. Young folks over there are alot more mature than american young adults. But the young men I hung out with, had all served in Bosnia and Croatia. They still have a draft in Holland. But they were always puzzled by the treatment Viet-Nam war vets recived upon their return from war. But I explained that those same people who spit on us, went on to become what we call "yuppies" and create the excesses of the 80`s and things called "junk bonds" that almost distroyed the US economy in the Reagan era. Yea....Marky Mark....you made references to the 60`s and 70`s "about we all did things", you obviously didn`t read what I wrote a few weeks back, I didn`t do LSD, or any synthetic man made drug in my life. NEVER...I`ve been a straight up pot-head...that`s all. I drink beer in Europe because "that`s REAL beer". It`s not this watered down stuff here in the states. Remember...at the Pop-A-Top all Kim and I was drinking was 7-UP and Coke. Like Steppenwolf`s song " Pusher Man" (I`ve never done nothing that my spirit couldn`t kill) I may have had the "Spirit of the 60`s and 70`s" , but I never did psychedelic drugs or cocaine or heroine. That shit would mess your mind up.....
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 08:04:14 (MST)
Animal, nice work on the etched face! You guys need to check out the link!
Dave Powers <powers@montrose.net>
Montrose, Colorado USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 08:03:00 (MST)
Update on the Iron Butterfly from Tropical Helicopter. Not to bad, sunny some days rainy the next. Training going well. We have to students to do check rides this week, so real busy. Our girl should be in the state of Florida in a month or so. The weather where she is is bad. Should have all of the final paper work done this week. Thanks for keeping in touch with me and the project, it is very important to me to keep all of you guys involved. Speak to you soon, Monte
Rick England
USA - Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 07:03:34 (MST)
www.stainedglassbiz.com the web address didn't print for some reason
Animal
USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 23:02:23 (MST)
Well I gotta say there is some good Rap Music out there. What about Bob Dylon's great rap song?...(.........the pump don't work, cause the vandels took the handles.......)I also like Kid Rock, another Detroit boy who mixes Rap with rock and even country. As we get older we tend to start sounding like the old people before us. They talked bad about elvis and the stones and whatever the young generation was into at the time. ( Oh no... we're becoming our parents!) I've always liked the new sounds once you get passed the mainstream stuff. (boy bands, Disco)Anyway, Fred S. , I bet your CD collection is worth spending some time with. Anyyway,... John, you mentioned Stoney, As a matter of fact we were pretty good friends, but have drifted apart over the years. We derosed at the same time and were both in the DC area, so we jumped in a Van and did a crazy road trip to Fla together. Visited "Rebel" from the 129th and some other friends from flight school. I saw him again about '77 in LA but haven't heard from him since. Would you send me his email address? I kind of grew up all over and never lived in the same place for more than a couple of years. That is until I moved to the Big Island and started a family 16 years ago. I've lived in Denver, Milwaukee, Charlotte, Boone NC, Maryland, Tallahassee, New Orleans, LA, Catalina Island, and now this island. I'm a graphic artist and manufacturer of sandblasted deco tiles.( Small time) I got started in graphic arts renovating old houses and soon realised the art was more fun than the renovating. If any of you are interested in seeing my work, there's an example on the web at http://www.stainedglassbiz.com/ Go to the gallery and it's on the second or third page. Enough for now, By the way I looked up Nazzaro in the phone book to no avail. I think I remember him posting awhile back though, so maybe he's still around. Stay warm.....Greg
Animal
Puna, HI USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 22:57:55 (MST)
Few things here: Mark...background of Rap....It`s always been said, Isaac Hayes was the grandfather of rap, he was a academy award winner writer. Soundtrack to "Shaft", Isaac also wrote "Soulman" for Sam and Dave. But Isaac would do a "monologue" before every song he did, it was called Ike`s Rap, Gil Scott-Heron " The Revolution Will Not Be Televised" 1974, straight up "rap", Oscar Brown Jr, "Ladiesman" 1972. But Rap has a long history, James Brown sure didn`t sang.LOL 40 years from now there might be the Eminen Breakfast Club.... Bob Seger wrote "war protest songs" think "Two Plus Two Is On My Mind" that was about refusing the draft and not going to Viet-Nam. Listen to words.....I use to go see Bob Seger at Valley Dale Dancehall in Columbus, Ohio, for .50 cover charge. Sir Timothy and The Royals would open up for him....they went on to become the Ohio Express" Yummy, Yummy". Seger band was called "The Last Herd and then he changed to The Bob Seger System. Jeff Sauers...North Witcher and I were talking about you yesterday, were your ears burning? He remembered when you got transfered to the 1st platoon.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 19:12:10 (MST)
Flight...I been wanting to put this true story on the web site for a while; Back in 1979, every morning on the way to work, I would stop at a coffee shop in Columbus,Ohio to get my morning coffee. It was called Capital City Dounut Shop, I`d been going there since 1975. Well one morning I went in to get my coffee and there was a new face behind counter. Now I had kept some of my old army shirts, you know wear on a cool fall morning. But that morning I had wore one with a 1st Aviation patch and my flight wings. The young man behind the counter took my order and while giving back my change, he ask me if I was in Viet-Nam? Being proud young vet I said," Yea man". The young man look at me and said," So was I". I said,"Who were you with"? He said he was the Chaplain for the 173rd Airborne. Being a 129th guy I said, "Where were you at"? He said, "Saigon". Well I was in a hurry, so I said to myself "What the hell". But I thought to myself," That dude was really young to have been in Nam". But I let it go....next day...there`s the same young guy behind the counter. He said," Good Morning Brother". I`ve never been much of a morning person, so I said,"What`s up"?. He said," Man you belong to the VVA". I said,"No". He said," Well I`m the Chaplain for the VVA". He went on to say I should come to a meeting and join. I said," Sure thing". So I went on to work again. A couple of weeks passed and I saw him again one morning. He went thru the same routine, but this time I ask him," Does Bong Son rang a bell"? He replied,"No". Then I ask about, LZ English and LZ Uplift, he replied,"Nope, never heard of those places". Damn!!!!! I thought, where could this guy have been with the 173rd. So time went on and I nver saw the young man anymore. One morning I ask the people who ran the coffee shop," Where`s that young dude that was behind counter a few months ago"? They said," He`s the assistant minister at St.Luke church now". My thought was, " Well the guy is a minister, he wouldn`t lie". So time went on for a few months and a friend from work that was a Nam Vet ask me one day, Fred, you want to go to a VVA meeting with me"? I said," What the hell, I`ll go with you Saturday. So Saturday came and off to the meeting I went with my friend Ron Sherell. Went we got to the meeting, it was being held at Vets Memorial Convention Center. Man....there was over 5,000 Nam vets in attendance...I thought I`d died and gone to heaven. IT was great.....I saw these guys with bright orange satin jackets, with black scipt writing that said, Viet-Nam Vets Reminding America. It was their softball team, I had dreamed of playing softball with a all Nam Vet team. And I was a good softball player, I was playing for a traveling team sponsored by Kroger Stores and called The Kroger All-Stars, so I was very good. But we went on into the meeting and sitting on the stage was That young man from the coffee shop. Now he was sitting with the local President Eugene Watts, History Professor from Ohio State University, The Vice President James Alstadt, The treasurer Richard Alstadt, Jim and Dick were brothers... and the VVA Chaplain,Ed Cooper... it was impressive. But let me get to the point here, after the meeting I went up to the Chaplain Cooper and I said, You remember me"? He said,"Yea" I said to him, "You know, I was with the 129th AHC in Nam and I was just wordering when you were with the 173rd"? He replied," 69 and 70"....I said, " You never heard of LZ English or Uplift"? He said,"No" I thought ......RIGHT. So feeling very pissed off, I looked up Vice President Dick Alstadt and got his attention, I told him I was in Nam in 70 and worked with the 173rd at English and Uplift and Chaplain Cooper had no recall of those places. I told him that the 173rd was based there. Well Dick look at me and said," We been wondering about him, because some of the stuff he says don`t jive". So Dick got Gene Watts and his brother Jim attention and I told my story. They assured me that they were going to check it out. So I left with a "bad feeling" about all this. While leaving I approached one of the softball players and made it known that I wanted a shot at playing ...that it was a dream of mine. Well he told me in so many words....that this is a "clique" and you might as well forget it. One year later I would be playing for the Kroger All-Stars and we would meet the VVA team and beat them 29 to 3 in 5 inning`s, we "run ruled" them. It was a sweet victory....But on with my story...about three weeks later Eugene Watts announced his run for the Senate for the state of Ohio. Now here`s the good stuff....I was working out on the job-site by myself and saw two Lincoln Town Cars approaching me. When they got closer I realized it was Senator (to be) Gene Watts, Jim Alstadt, Dick Alstadt and Pastor Ed Cooper. They all got out and motion for me to come over to the cars. They wanted to talk to me....so as I approached them...they started talking Brother this and Brother that.... I just stopped and ask. "What`s Up". Well they let me know that Gene Watts was gonna be Senator and he was gonna "part the waters for Viet-Nam Vets". I said," What`s that got to do with me"? They said," Chaplain Cooper is worried that you could cause problems for our run..... I said,"Well the Mo----F---k-- don`t need to be tellin lies"..... They said, " Fred...you could discredit the whole thing". I said, " So Pastor Cooper wasn`t in Nam"....And they confirmed my suspicions. But they were willing to let things go because "it was our time brother". Well Gene Watts went on to serve in the senate for the state of Ohio for two terms, he nerver did shit for vets......Jim Alstadt went on to become the president of a private hospital(Mercy Hospital) in Columbus. He later served time because the hopital went broke and he was busted for embezzlement of funds.....Jim Alstadt went on to become a bank official and was later busted for a "credit card" scam and pulled time in jail. Pastor Cooper went on to be Head Minister at St. Lukes Methodist Church, he was counseling the women of the church, who were having "rocky marriages". Everything went fine until one of the women committed suicide...She admitted to having a affair in her suicide note with Pastor Ed...Her husband sued the church and Pastor Ed...Never heard from Pastor Ed again. But since that "lesson in life", I`ve learn that because somebody served in Nam or said they served....Was Not My Brother. That`s always influenced me when some Nam vet calls me brother. This all is a true story in a time frame of 1979 thru 1985. So when it all comes down to it...No one is your brother... good friends maybe. And that was a defining moment in my life as far as anything concerning Viet-Nam. Also I probably don`t trust certain things about reunions and other stuff. Maybe you guys will understand why I`m like I am. But this is a "honest to god" true story.
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 18:24:58 (MST)
Mark, No I am saying they refused to get on the ac because they were not going to go into Cambodia. Was not an act of courage!
JEFF SAUERS
USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 18:24:51 (MST)
.......shucks....those two words showed up on the same line in my last post.....I knew I should of held on longer.....Hey Jeff S...........Good to see you here. Are you saying that the grunts you speak of at LZ Merideth refused to get on the ships because they were willing to stay and fight???...if so, WOW!!!!!......so many stories of so much courage. WOW!!!!......I thank all of you, for what you did for me, so long ago!!!!!take care brothers and sisters, Always a brother, Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 17:46:52 (MST)
...Fred...PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!..do not use the word rap..........................................................................................and music in the same line.........................emulate what emvironment????....... Bob Seger grew up in Detriot also....which would you defend first?......I agree that music comes from a background of culture.......but rap has no background to the best of my knowledge.................sorry Fred....have to disagree with on this one..............and as far as the Beatles.......yeah..to our parents, they were just maken a bunch of noise.......but now that noise is heard in just about every elavator that we ride in......and the words of Lennon and McCartney are things that I believe in "All You Need Is Love", and " You Never Felt The Rain My Friend, Till Ya Felt It Runnin' Down Your Back".......Radio stations have Beatles's weekends. Breakfast with the Beatles on Sunday morning's..........bet you'll never hear of an eminem weekened of music.:-)))).......Ozzie, Drugs, Bad guy????......not a role mode?l....come Fred. You grew up in the 60's and 70's..........I did stuff, bet you did too. I raised 3 wonderful daughters and am still married to the same wife of 30 years..and have alays been a workin' my ass off kinda a guy....drugs didnt alter me any. Yeah, I would take Ozzie as a role model before Two pac, or what ever his name is, was, spelled.....no, a wannbe ain't something diffrent? A wanna be is somebody, being somebody, he ain't.....eminem is, or could, be a very nice young man. I dont know..................but I bet he ain't acting like himself. That is a wannabe! Hey!!!!!!!!!!!....Guess what????...snowing in Ohio again. Dee had the day off from school. Saw a wheather man say today that we have had over 30" this winter.....not much for some...but latly round these parts, it tis!!!!!.....No time in sight when I will be able to get the Hog out.................Animal.....You didnt offend any one..this is an open forum.....speak you piece.....we all just have to remember to keep the peace!!!..hey Alex;-)))////whats the matter with gettin' to close to the Pop-A-Top.'-)))))) You been stuck there before;-))))).....Hey, by the way Alex......I want to thank you for the great job you have been doin as President of the VHCMA!!!!.....Hip,Hip Hooray for you!!!!!!!!!!......thanks.......I'm in love with Norah Jones. Fred, I did not know she was the daughter of the guy that taught Harrison the satir......interesting!!!!!!!you all take care......I love you.....stick around. Hope to meet all of you some day........Mr. Loveday. Good to see your post.....The Debates....got your address change.....will make the adjustment..thanks....the "257" turning inbound and climbing to 6,000ft....Lets go homr Larry....always a brother.....Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 17:38:08 (MST)
For those of you who were there for our trip to Cambodia I found a book that has a chapter called "Hot LZs". The main attraction was LZ Phillips. I am sure most of us remember it. Also talked about the large goat rope lift out of LZ Merideth when the last bunch of grunts refused to get on the aircraft. I think most of our ac were involved in that one as well. I know I was only in country about a month and thought what in the hell kind of crap did I get myself into. Anyway the book is "INTO CAMBODIA" by a guy named Keith Nolan. Published in 1990. Worth reading. Has lots of info about the political situation and how it was driving the war. Post retirement quotes by lots of senior officers about the political decisions that cost GI lives. Take care to all!
jeff sauers
USA - Monday, February 24, 2003 at 17:20:54 (MST)
Flight: Well Hope somebody i