All these stories are clearing out the cob webs of my ravaged brain!!! Alvis: I remember flying around a group of pungent Korean beauties at one point. I was the AC at the time and the Pete was a newbie Captain (Benson) that I didn't get along with. He was made our platoon leader as soon as he got into the unit and the first thing he did with me was read me article 13? or some such nonsense because my mustache exceeded his expectations. He also tried to make me take the "Dust off" patches off my flight Jacket. I remember landing at several ROK outposts and listening to the girls sing folk songs.We almost got fogged in at The Ahn Khe pass. Talk about a Morter Magnet!! I was happy to get out of there before dark. Could this have been the mission you were on? I was in the 129th from July/71 to Feb/72. I remember the Typhoon( We took most of the Aircraft to Cam Rahn Bay and terrorized the Air force-But that's another story) Smitty, The RLO that got busted was named LT Schrieber. He lived across the Hall from me. Anyone remember the Vietnamese Kid "Tony" that moved into Schriebers empty room?? I always wondered what happened to him as he was a former Tiger scout or something. He was kind of a company mascot and one of the Gunnies was trying to adopt him if I remember correctly. Smitty: I also remember how the scariest things weren't neccessarily combat (Flying in Bad weather is what I was afraid of) Do you remember telling me of a terrifying incident you had while on top of your Aircraft? Since there was a happy ending, would you relate it to the rest of the flight? Hope I'm not out of order here. Best wishes, Animal P.S. The weather is here, I wish you were beautiful!!!
Animal
HI USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 23:13:56 (MST)

Welcome Home J.W....Glad to see one of Max`s "old school" brothers on board !!!! I just live "up the road " in Raleigh...and my wife and I spend alot of weekends in the summer down at Wrightsville Beach. Like Max said, there`s not many "super stars" as far as computer skills here. Well I speak for myself.....
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 19:32:20 (MST)

JW, no I don't remember Capt. Lawerance, or the story about him getting in trouble. It may have been after I DEROSed in March of '67. Welcome to the board; it's nice to see another of the guys who were in the 129th early on. Don't worry about your computer or typing skills, we all screw up a lot in here.
Max Whittinton <Max@OregonPI.com>
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 19:02:07 (MST)

Max, thank you for letting me know about this chat room. Iam not verry good with computer. do you remember Captain Lawerance who was caught possing as a Australian officer when he went on in country r& r. It was about the time we were at a place called Song Mau.I live about 15 miles from West Company plant that blew up wedensday. JWW
j.w. wilson <kas3@ncfredom.net>
kinston, nc USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 18:33:11 (MST)

Marky Mark, Do you know a guy from Coldwater name Tony Adams, he was with the 120th AHC in Nam, he was there in 71/72 Avionics man. Jim W. mention he was in the 120th, so I just kinda check out other sites and compare. Some of the other sites are not as liberal format as we are. Some are real private
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 16:40:24 (MST)

Jeff, I never heard from Spud after Nam, probably went back to Idaho. What did he do before Nam? He was one of those guys that had alot of different expressions to his face. One look could say a thousand words
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 15:32:42 (MST)

Fred, My folks are in Matthews NC (a burb of Charlotte) They have been there about 23 years. Dad's company xfered him and after they retired they stayed. They are moving up here about 5 miles from me in a few months. About the Shit in the back window. A couple of pick-ups ago I had a rack but carried my golf umbrella and a spare putter there. Got some really wierd looks from some of the locals. May be that they thought I was being a wise ass. Do you know what ever happened to Bob Weaver? He was a good guy. Take care and hello to Kim.
jeff
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 14:52:31 (MST)

Jeff...Did you just get back from your parents or are you at work? I didn`t know they lived down here in N.C. I was under the impression they were still in PA. Hey....I live down here in the South, they carry their shit in the back windows, can`t let them know I can`t shoot a weapon.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 14:42:22 (MST)

OK! OK! I GIVE UP. FREDDIE IS RIGHT AND THE TIMES I FLEW WITH HIM HE ALWAYS MANAGED TO HIT WHAT HE WAS SHOOTING AT! CONGRATS TO NORTH WITCHER ON NEW GRANDCHILD.
jeff sauers
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 14:15:57 (MST)

Thank you for the insite Fred Brown. Always-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 12:31:36 (MST)

Good Afternoon Flight......I`ve been wanting to put this story on the web-site for long time, because it was a proud moment of my time in Nam. Also it involved exceptional people doing extraordinary things. But it`s kinda of a "add on" to a story already told by Jim(Cups)Masencup in our STORIES SECTION of the web-site "Of Ego`s and Typhoon Flying", there are some things I will correct on the story, but it`s all true. Cups made one mistake in the story...there wasn`t 8 helicopters involved, there was 4. I`m looking at the orders as I write, The Operations Captain that woke up Cups was named CPT. Robert J. Becker, he probably knew someone was gonna get a medal and he wanted one. We would go on to receive" The Life Saving Medal" from the government of Viet-Nam, and the officer`s would receive the "DFC`s" and the crewmen would receive the " Soldiers Medal". But it involved selfless humanitarian acts. Of course Brother Cups would get written up by a maintenance officer for a "blade strike" after all was said and done. Kinda funny now and ironic...that same maintenance officer tells "war stories" on the web site. But those involved in this mission besides Cups and CPT. Becker was James C.(Hobie)Jobe W/O AC, very good pilot and just a general great guy. Joel A. Priebe W/O AC, a absolute wild man, lots of fun to fly with and always into something, brought in the greatest lookin hookers I ever saw...for Viet-Nam. Later on in his tour he would get in trouble for "buzzing" Lane Tower on a short timer pass. Harvey N. Witcher,W/O AC, he became my main AC at the last part of my tour, such a personable and special brother. Robert R.(Spud)Weaver W/O AC, when telling the story of the ARVN shooting M-79 rounds into Lane, well Spud was grilling pork chops for a 2nd plt. party. When everybody was running for cover, Spud kept grilling and sipping his Bud. And was heard saying " I`m not leaving these pork chops for someone to rip-off". Terry L. McDaniel W/O, Can`t remember much about Terry. Daniel D.Baxter W/O, I don`t remember him at all. Crew Member`s were Ronald G.Ingermunson SP/5, Ron would go on to be a Fireman in Portland,Oregon and would go on to do work as a volunteer at Ground Zero after 9/11. We were also close in Nam. Charles G. Solomon SP/5, 2 tour ex-marine that was on his 3rd tour of Nam as a Army person. Charlie use to raise ten kinds of hell with me, I was just too anti-military for Charlie. But he could be a sweetheart, once he was away from NCO`s and Officer`s. SP/4 Eugene L. Dunn, Eugene was just a mellow kind of guy. SP/5 Robert D. Carter, a Tom Cruise look-a-like and a mancho little guy. Bobby had been in the field with the 173rd, and got sick of that crap. But he had started off as a OJT gunner and worked his way up to a crew-chief. You had to admire that... SP/5 John l. Warsing, SP/5 William D.Sanders, PFC Jose A. Rivas, those three guys I don`t remember. Now PFC James L.Crook III, this kid was from New York City, good looking kid, that would get up every morning ansd take a shower and put on "Jade East". I told him there wasn`t no women here and the ones that were here, all you had to do was "flash that MPC" and you have a woman. That was the crews involved in the mission. So it had to be just 4 helicopters from the 129th. As I remember the typhoon had hit the night of 29th of October 1970 and we had ridin the storm out. Never in my life had I seen so much rain. This stuff was blowing "side-ways"....It was about 4;00am in the morning when W/O North Witcher woke me up and said "Come on Fred, lets go this mission". My thoughts were" DUDE....there`s a typhoon out there". But Charlie Solomon was awake also and started messing with me, with his mancho marine stuff. Now the mission was a volunteer thing, but with Charlie getting in my butt about being a sissy, I wasn`t gonna let that "old man" out mancho me. So I said Yea, let me get my shit together. So on the way to the flight line the wind was so strong, that you could lean into it and and it would almost hold you upright. On that mission my pilots would be Jim(Hobie)Jobe and North Witcher, both were AC`s so that was a good thing. Ronnie Ingermunson would be my crew-cief, Ronnie was on his second tour of Nam, he had been with the 1st Cav on his first tour. Well I felt secure that I was in good hands, so off we went. I remember that Cups was the first ship to pull pitch. Then we cleared everthing for our crew. When Hobie picked up that ship, we jerked to the left and I thought "we`re gonna die". But he got it out and we began to roll. Now what was going on was that, Bagi had flooded over night and all these civilians were stuck in the flood and the water was raising. These poor folks were gonna drown like rats if we didn`t get to them. Now the flight conditions were just crazy. The ceiling was only about 500 ft. to a 1000ft. Wind and rain was just blowing helicopter around like was a toy. There was some amazing flying done just to get airbourne. Seems like it took us a hour just to get to Bagi....as we approach we could see thousands it seem like of people on top of these "ragged ass hooches". So we just kinda pick the worst of the worst and made our approach. As we got near, Hobie said "Get the women and kids first and no danm animals" No problem... well Hobie and Witch had to hold this hover in these damn winds as we were to line up the helicopter. Just as soon as we put the skids on my side, kinda just touching this hooch, with about 30 or 40 people on top of it...this asshole ARVN soldier push his way to the front and started to board the ship. He wasn`t about to help no one but himself, my reaction to that was , I blasted him so hard with a open hand upside his head that he fell backwards and lost his " steel pot". I bet he still has an imprint of my hand upside his head. But Ronnie came across from his left seat and went out on to the hooch, well as we were loading everyone up. This old mommasan was holding on to her pot belly pig for dear life. Well Hobie said " Let her on", so I did. Well the pilots was watching the torgue and stuff, and the ship kinda gave a jerk...Hobie said we got to go...in the mean time that pot belly pig had shit on the floor of the ship. So I kinda lost train of thought and said Let`s go!!!! and Hobie pick-up. Only one problem.....Ronnie was still on top of that hooch....Oh Shit...I told Hobie and he said WHAT!!!!! I said Ronnie`s still on top of the hooch. Well we flew just a little ways before we could get to dry land and drop off our packs. We got the packs off and back we went to get Ron. Well we got kinda " turned around" so to speak and couldn`t see Ron!!! Hobie said " Skaggs which hooch was it" I said I couldn`t tell. But just when I was starting to get that feeling in my stomach, Ronnie stood-up and waved his hands. We got back to the hooch and got Ron and the rest of the folks on top of the hooch. Including that damn ARVN!!!! he kept looking at me with contempt and I kept thinking," Make a move asshole"!!!!!Ron said that he had crouched down because of the wind, Ron was 6 ft.4in. tall and kinda thin, and was scared he`d blow off the hooch. So we just couldn`t see him. But we repeated our actions for another good 6 or 7 hours that day. We had to have moved 600 to 800 people that day. When they finally cleared us to "go home" everyone was dead tired. When we got back in Ron said" Don`t worry about the pig shit Fred, we`ll get it another day". As I approach the hill to the flight hooch, Charlie Solomon slap me on the back and said" You did good kid". Because of actions like that and the brothers that I served with I can always say I made a difference that day. When I got my orders for the medals in Germany, they had a formation at company level, and awarded them to me. One burning question, they said we rescued a 150 people, I`m like Cups, what the hell happen to those other 450 or 500 people......
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, N.C. USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 12:29:30 (MST)

Morning Flight...You guys gettin with it......nice stories....Jeff Sauers why is it so hard to admit I was right!!!! Plus you give me crap about my marksmanship.....my guns were the best...WHY...because the Cobra gunners taught me how to beef-up that M-60 and Curt Frank taught me I didn`t have to clean that weapon EVERY NIGHT.....as long as that little gas plug in the barrel moved freely, they always fired. But Sgt. Meeks would always wonder why I burnt up so mant barrels.....in a slick. Robbie I got a couple of pictures of Eugene Dunn on a disc the Ron Ingermunson sent me. Let me know if you want them. Jim W..... A .50 cal. on a UH-1H, I always tolded that it would mess up the rivets in the tail boom, something about the recoil. But I`m not a crew-chief. You could cut your own LZ`s with a .50 cal. North Witcher sent me a e-mail last night, he has a new granddaughter. It was good to hear from North. Rick England....were you the original crew-chief of the Iron Butterfly....did you get it new? Man if you go to Florida to work on it....that humidity will "kick your butt" being use to Arizona. I noticed Rene made reference to the Funky 4th Infantry Division, those guys could never seem to get stuff right. I had some bad experiences with those guys up in Happy Valley.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 08:26:11 (MST)

I am going to try Robbie
Rick England
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 08:08:53 (MST)

Rick, i think you should get the plywood and paint the peace sign on it and tell them if it's not in it then it wouldn't be as it was in RVN. They'd almost have to put it in. Rob
Robbie
Rochester, NY USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 07:11:02 (MST)

I have been in contact with the people buying 431. They are going to restore it to the way it was in RVN. I sent pics to them and talked with them and they are going to fly me down to Flordia (outside Orlando) to supervise the painting of the ship. 431 and other choppers will be in airshows around the country. Possiby fly up to the pop a top for rides. They have a cobra, oh-6, and oh-58. He was also telling me about they have ships or knows where we can get one for a static setup. I forgot to tell Mark about that. It'll take 2 to 3 months to complete. That would be nice to have ready by the reunion Atlanta is not far. Hope this comes together. Flight be careful out there. I wonder if he will let me put 4X8 sheet of plywood in it with peace sysmbol like I had it.
Rick England
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 06:18:19 (MST)

Mr. Morrell. Good to see you're still around and posting here. I have a picture of you sitting P/P in my ship The Judge 265, and Pete Rhome's Gunner behind you was flying with us that day. His name was Dunn but can't remember his first name. The picture is in the gallery uner my name #5... Good to hear from you. Robbie
Robbie
Rochester, NY USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 05:59:10 (MST)

Something I forgot, there was an RLO Pilot ( can't remember his name) call sign STAR who was busted for pot & that's the last we saw of him, anyone remember that?? sometime in 71 Later, Jim
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
sheridan, Wy. USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 05:38:18 (MST)

Fred A., I do remember the crab deal, also shaky, now i can't remember his name but there is a picture that someone posted of Shaky (Jay Hillon) who was in the gun platoon but these are 2 different guys at 2 different times. I was in Las Vegas A few years ago & met with Festus ( LT Richard Trumbo), His CE later Barry Swanson, & Larry Kwiatowski. We had quite a long visit & Festus has a lot of pictures, one real good one of the shaky i remember & you do. He must still be living, he was in the slicks as were Festus etc. Jay Hillon, I have heard, died in a car wreck. I remember the CA, as a matter of fact, I had a .50 cal mounted on my ship for a long time, I remember we used to do a lot of inspection of the gun mounts for cracks etc. used it for light mission a lot, as a fact i had it on when I cleared the AC down in POL at night & we set the left skid down on the light cord coming from the aft compartment & shorted everything out, ship would not shut down so all 4 of us ran behind a revetment. The sparks finally quit & the AC & I went back & shut the thing down. Anyone remember that? Not too proud of that because i cleared the ship down. Anyway while on a CA, going in Hot, I was firing the .50 into the treeline & a round ricocheted back across in front of the ship. A .50 tracer. We has an RLO ( I believe a captain flying AC & when we came back, I was told to remove the .50 ... end of nice gun. Another time, we went into an LZ to pick up some cut off Korean grunts, Shadow Flying AC, I can't remember the rest of the crew. Anyway they came for the aircraft under heavy fire & Shaow could have left them but stood that ship right there until all 11-12 were on board. We were taking fire, overloaded & Shadow Yanked in the collective. Biggest max power takeoff i was ever on. At any rate as we were coming over the ridge the co(peter P) pilot said the Torquemeter was coming down through 50#. I looked up & it sure was. Shadow flew the shi a couple miles down the valley, set it down, I inspected the short shaft & everything else I could think of. We called in & were circle red x'd one time to Lane & the ship had to go into PE. Thank GOD for Shadow ( He should have gotten a DFC or something & I should have had the brains to put him in for one). He saved us all. Festus also has a good picture of Shadow. I have been in contact with Shadow & he remembers it the same way. Lot of missions, all different of course. Another time, A radio outfit off qui nhon had been mortared at night. They were on a small island & while no one was hit directly, a beam that was burning fell across a man & they could not get to him & he died there. We picked up his Body. Put it across the Cargo seat. He was all burned black & covered with a blanket. We were taking him into Qui Nhon to Graves Reg. & I got the folks who did it on sight on the ground. I called the AC for permission to fire 3 times & was told no because ARVN was in command of the area & there were friendlies on the ground. I am still having Nightmares about that one. Wanted to get even for that guy real Bad. The doors were open & the blanket kind of blew half off him. I can still remember what he looked like, cannot remember any of the rest of the crew. Maybe someone can help me with that one. I kind of started coming apart after that. Would have been early spring 1972. But i had been having problems with nightmares & things ever since my first tour with the 120th in 1969 ( another story). I also remember the racial tensions, the drug problems etc. times changed fast in that unit. I Flew a lot with Greg Henkel (Animal), Bill Shillitto, Shadow, Gabby. Fred Skaggs: I have stopped & met Ron Debates & his wife a couple times & really like them. They only live a couple hundred miles from me & so when I go to Kalispell, Montana to see my brother & sister (that is where i was born) I try to stop in Big Timber & see them. Would like to meet you sometime. God, thats enough for now; My Respects, Jim W
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
sheridan, Wy. USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 05:28:15 (MST)

Rene, You are right about small world. Linda is fine and living in DC area. Saw her last at my daughter's wedding. Where is Parkley? Anywhere close to NC. The funny fourth took care of more than one "cherry" mine included. What was your name callsign? I hate to have to admit that Fred Skaggs got me. Fred Brown-That sounds about right stat wise. One must remember that as with all of us with a license to practice in a medical capacity, be it MD, RN etc must report everything other than minor driving infractions to state boards.
jeff sauers <cats3@adelphia.net>
lake norman, nc USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 04:21:05 (MST)

Alex. The picture I sent was not of Don Cline, Don was my crew chief on 868. Pic was of a SP-5, who I believe was a head crew chief, but I don't know for which flight. He was crewing for Don because Don was on R&R the day we went down in 868. (Story about the guy, maybe from another unit before the 129th: he and an AC were the only ones crewing on a slick making a milk run to DBT; he was in right seat. Ground fire came through floor and hit pilot's legs. Crew chief flew rest of the way but couldn't land, so got into a rough hover about 6-10 feet up, then shut it down. Skids permanently spread, but I believe the ship flew again. Remember that story?) Please send me Don's email, if he has one, or address. Anyone got any news on Captain Steve Dodge, who built the famous mobile officers' outhouse? Can't find him, either.
Max Whittington <Max@OregonPI.com>
USA - Friday, January 31, 2003 at 01:10:22 (MST)

Just finished reading the log and see that someone is looking for me. By the way Cherry is not a true statement. Flying support for the funny Fourth took care of that. Yes I remember Linda Gamble. What a small world we live in.
Rene' Morrell <rmorrell@esva.net>
Parksley, VA USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 22:19:34 (MST)

TO EVERYONE, I'm sorry to break the flow of memoirs, so I'll lay this out as concise as I can. Recently, Jan. 23, 2003 16:15:25, I pointed out the importance of providing sources of information when presented as fact. Although I had not identified her, GENTLY retorted that I was refering to a much earlier request for sources I'd made of her for her posting of Aug. 6, 2002, 07:38:33..."Did you know that 25% of all the doctors within the VA system have criminal records and couldn't get a job anywhere else?" On Aug. 9, 2002, 08:06:46 Gently refers me to a CBS.com site "To get the flavor of the problem" and says she'll keep looking for the original source of her information.As it turns out the CBS.com site does not support the original statement. It in fact reveals a very different picture. The article is about an Associated Press review of ALL federal government doctors, which include doctors for veterans, soldiers, American Indians, astronauts and federal prisinors. In the past two years 118 or .05% of all 20,800+ doctors employed by the federal government have been convicted of crimes or punished by review boards. Of these 118 doctors 75 were in the VA system. A majority of the "crimes" had nothing to do with their medical profession. The national rate of conviction or punishment for civilian doctors is 2.6%. SO WAHT'S MY POINT IN REHASHING ALL OF THIS? The point is this. The necessity for the SOURCE of "facts" is to evaluate the validity and credibility of the information. Just because something appears in black and white does not make it true. There are extreme fringes on any given issue. And they are equally guilty of scewing the truth and using less than credible sources to support their position.GENTLY: I have never "challenged " you. I beleive that you beleive what you posted is true. However, your own source for "the flavor of the problem" totally discredits your original statement. Please re-read my comments. They do not question you personally, nor do they question your personal credibility, motives or purpose. Your advocacy for veteran's appears to be genuine and selfless. But if you are to be heard and affect change, the arsonal of information you use must be valid and unquestionable. Otherwise the unsubtantiated becomes your achilles heal. No matter how righteous your purpose, your weakness will discredit and undermine your altimate goal. And Lastly, Do not kill the messenger because you dislike the message. FRED SKAGGS: Thanks for the supportive comments a week ago, however, they are not necessary. The point I'm making stands on it's own merits. AND NOW, BACK TO THE PERSONAL MEMOIRS
Fred Brown <FJBuffalo@Yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 21:02:13 (MST)

Good evening flight: Max 66-67. Oh! I forwarded the picture to Rainer and Glenn. I thought I could have been Cline or Foley . We just found Richard Schwabidssen in NY. Rainer has talked to him. OH! flight Rainer had to have a hernia operation yesterday. Might want sent him a little email. Seems like alot of memory coming back. Mark, hey you got usual ohio weather. Snow and cold. We got, some of the cold weather down here. But, had to fed-x back to you. Alex
Alex <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, Tn. USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 19:09:20 (MST)

You got me. I must have Morrell and Muirhead mixed up call sign wise. Went and got out some pics of Nam. You are right. Morrell is in gallery someplace. Oh well I know who you and I are.
jeff
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 18:53:01 (MST)

MARK.....as long as the commo stays the "upbeat direction", and everyone keep it positive.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 18:09:18 (MST)

Ooops. February of '67, of course.
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 18:02:54 (MST)

Max, Are you sure you were in Nam in February of 1997????? LOL......I know you were saying....
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 18:00:05 (MST)

Jeff, I was trying to "flip up" their class picture and type at the same time.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 17:56:05 (MST)

Jeffey.....Jeffey......Never doubt my mind, becacause I know what I`m talking about....Example; Richard H. Muirhead.....Class 69-1....A-1....Ft.Wolters, Texas. Example: Douglas A. DiPiazza same class, remember him Jeff..... you should...
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 17:53:57 (MST)

Jeffey.....Jeffey......Never doubt my mind, becacause I know what I`m talking about....Example; Richard H. Muirhead.....Class 69-1....A-1....Ft.Wolters, Texas. Example: Douglas A.DiP
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 17:49:47 (MST)

Fred (and group), Like some other guys, I'm probably using this board to work through some "stuff," and, like you, along with the bad was some good, and it helps me to remember that. I've been reading the letters I sent home to my mom for the first time ever; since I only wrote about light-hearted things to her, there is some pretty funny stuff in there, and often brings back memories of even more. Here's one (didn't seem so funny at the time, but a few minutes ago I laughed so hard I scared my cat): In early Feb. of '97, we were moving from Bao Loc to Phan Thiet. I was in the advance party. The grunts had encircled the only semi-flat ground available for us with concertina wire, and it turned out to be a Vietnamese cemetary, with some of the graves blown open by earlier morter fire. The wind was really strong, so we had to sleep in our birds. We dug foxholes between the graves, VERY CAREFULLY. The flies were unbelievably bad, and when we fired up so C-rats, they covered our food and got stuck in it. Since we knew where the flies had probably been, some couldn't eat it, but a few us waited for dark, then sprinkled in some Bacon Bits (the stuff you put on salads - they had just come out that year, I think) that I gotten in a "care package," and we ate it while pretending that the every time we bit down and felt a crunch it was just Bacon Bits!
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 17:41:10 (MST)

..Hey Jeff and Freddie..........I thought I recalled that name of Rene Morrel. He does have a listing in out CONTACTS page, but not sure if it is current?.........check it out. Good to see the commo in here......and Freddie Boy.....don't you ever think about leavin' this web sight!!!!.............Coldwater got blasted by another winter storm yesterday....but we just mellowed through it.........take care all.......Hey Rick E....come on in and tell the rest what you did to me today about the 431 ( The Iron Butterfly ) and what the plans are for her!!! always a brother, Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour>
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 17:39:41 (MST)

I was wrong- he was not short during Cambodia- I may have killed a brain cell or two as well. Sorry about that.
jeff
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 17:18:09 (MST)

Freddie, et al- Cherry's name was Morrell-Rene Morrell. I know this because he and his twin brother went to high school with my son's Godmother. Did not know that in Nam but later. Cherry if you are out there do you remember Linda Jane Gamble? I think she said it was in Hiedelburg. Linda and my ex are life long best friends. But Fred is correct- if I can recall Cherry never had anything exciting happen to him. I remember Cherry was real short during Cambodia. I was real newbie at time and flew with several ACs. Pretty much got my attention
jeff sauers
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 16:54:23 (MST)

I can`t help myself....I`m addicted....to the web-site. I like what Frenchie had to say about "taking this web-site another direction". You have to get away from the moribund aspects of Viet-Nam. Not everything was negative!!! I`m more in tune to talk about the positive things and it seems that more guys get active when talking about the positive. I`ve burned up alot of brain cells in my lifetime, but I got damn good memory. Also alot of college kids come in on this web-site. They are use it as a reference point in which to write reports and essays. So if we are to "Teach The Children Well" to coin a phrase from a CSNY song. They should understand the social change and the idealism that Viet-Nam brought on. Death wasn`t the only thing Nam was about. That`s a given, it was a War, that happens in a war. There`s a " time and place" for us to honor our fallen brothers, I can`t dwell on that everyday. We need to celebrate surviving and living. Let`s take it to that upbeat direction and relate our history. I guess something positive to me about Nam, was our excursion into Cambodia....timeline being about April 15, 1970. Actually we started hearing rumours about the first part of April.....April Fools......now that was my first big CA with the 129th. It was around the 15th that we started moving to Camp Holliway in Pleiku. My AC on that mission would be Mr. Muirhead, (Cherry) was his callsign. The reason they called him Cherry, I was told, was because this man had went thru Nam for 14 months and never taken a round or been shot down or had a engine failure.....unbelievable. But I was looking at the "law of averages" and thinking I`m with this dude....Damn. My crew-chief was Curt Frank, he had just come back from the world, after extenting for 6 months. He wanted that "early out". But I remember all the aircraft envolved in that movement, there was every type of helicopter there was a the time. UH-1H, Bravo models and Charlie models, Chinooks and Skycranes. I don`t know how we kept from having a "mid-air" somewhere. The 17th Cav had their Lochs and AH-1`s, and OH-58`s. Just a wild scene all together. Then we started to make our moves to our "staging area`s", places with names like Duc Co and Plei Djereng.... I`ll never forget those places,there was so many sorties that by the time we were leaving, that red dirt was like powder. That stuff was everywhere. I bet I washed for three months before I got that crap out my pores. But our first sortie was kinda going northwest to a LZ being preped by or Bravo model Cobra`s. First thought in my mind was "Cherry hasn`t been shot up yet". We were probably Chalk 2 or 3 can,t remember in that kind of detail. But as we were going in we started taking fire, it wasn`t really bad. More harassing type stuff, but people were taking rounds in their ships. But the strange thing about it was, we never took one round in the entire operation. That Mr.Muirhead was luckiest guy on this earth. But as time would go on, I caught more hell in the Sui Cau Valley, and Happy Valley, An Lon Valley. I will always say that, "Charles knew we were coming" in Cambodia. But the 129th, we didn`t lose one ship that I can remember or a crewman or pilot. I remember coming back to An Son to a big steak dinner, that was big time for the flight crews. That was about the last week of May or first week of June, 1970. But something happened that would effect my way of thinking forever.....Kent State.....After reading the "spin" that Stars & Stripes put on it, I thought what the hell is wrong with those people......We`re trying to win this war. But letter`s from home would put the story straight. From that point on things would change forever for me. But the great thing is we never lost anyone in Cambodia. And I made a new friend " Cambodian Red Bud". Everytime there was a mission up to Pleiku, I wanted to go.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 16:39:29 (MST)

Fred, Did you get my e-mail?
jeff
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 16:00:22 (MST)

Hi guys: You might want to read this. there are some of our friends that need this for their families. If you know someone that fits this criteria, send the information. time is short. I found this interesting reading. How many of our own fall into this catagory? By CONNIE CASS Associated Press Writer January 28, 2003, 3:44 PM EST WASHINGTON -- Christopher Wilkinson held his wife's hand as he died of lung cancer in a Minnesota hospital room, 27 years and 8,000 miles away from the war in Vietnam. Carl Auel flipped his car in a ditch along a Virginia backroad and died in a coma two weeks later, ending years of nightmares about Vietnam that pushed the retired Navy chaplain to drink. Frank Nichols hanged himself in 1977, eight years after returning to Kentucky with a Bronze Star and two Purple Hearts. Despite the years and distance, each man's family considers him a casualty of war. But none of their names appear on the black granite wall in Washington honoring the war's official dead. For these others, there is a little-known remembrance -- a roll of names kept inside the park rangers' kiosk near the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. Few visitors see the list. There's no sign; some rangers don't even know it's there. But those who ask the right person are handed a slim, gray binder with 801 names and snapshots of shirtless young soldiers, middle-aged men in business suits, veterans posed somberly before the wall. Family members will read those names on April 21, the 10th anniversary of what began as a grass-roots movement to publicly recognize deaths that might otherwise go overlooked. "People see the wall and think that's all the casualties, but it's not. That war really isn't over," said Linda Wilkinson of Inver Grove Heights, Minn. She blames exposure to defoliants for her husband's death in 1998 at age 50. The American Battle Monuments Commission is finishing plans for a granite marker to be installed near the wall as early as this year honoring, without naming, those "who served in the Vietnam War and later died as a result of their service." Meanwhile, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund, keeper of the wall and the list, is seeking more names from veterans' families for inclusion on the "In Memory" list. Death certificates and military records must be submitted by Feb. 28 to qualify for this year's ceremony, said Holly Rotondi, who reviews the applications. It's impossible to say to what degree wartime service should be blamed in deaths years later. If a family makes a reasonable case, the name is accepted, Rotondi said. Fifty-four names were added last year, the first time the memorial fund publicized the search, Rotondi said. She hopes for more nominations as word spreads; no one knows how many thousands might be eligible. Many on the list died from cancers the government presumes are related to Agent Orange, which was used to clear jungle growth that provided cover for the enemy. Others were victims of post-traumatic stress disorder, through suicide, drug abuse or alcoholism. And there are civilians and soldiers who died during the war but don't meet Defense Department criteria as war casualties. Reflecting those rules, the wall of 58,229 names is reserved for service members who died of wounds sustained in the combat zone or in direct support of combat. The "In Memory" list tells many other stories: * Johnny Bower of Costa Mesa, Calif., died in the April 1966 crash of a charter plane transporting soldiers to Fort Benning, Ga., for training before deployment to Vietnam. * Michael Murphy, a civilian from Seward, Alaska, was killed in a Viet Cong ambush in 1968, while working for the U.S. Agency of International Development. Civilians aren't included on the wall. * Elmo Zumwalt III, patrol boat commander and son of the well-known admiral who ordered spraying of Agent Orange along Vietnam waterways, died of lymphoma in August 1988. Zumwalt and his father blamed the cancer on Agent Orange in their joint memoir, "My Father, My Son." * Lewis B. Puller Jr. lost his legs to a land mine and wrote a Pulitzer Prize-winning account of his long struggle with pain, addiction and despair. The son of legendary Lt. Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, the most decorated solider in Marine Corps history, shot himself in the head in May 1994. As for Wilkinson, his decision to enlist in the Army at age 19 caused a lifetime estrangement from his brother Alex, a war protester. They econciled in the hospital two days before his death. Auel, a Lutheran minister from Purcellville, Va., comforted scared and dying men in Vietnam. But he couldn't quell the flashbacks that began consuming his own mind two decades after the war. His drunken driving accident came in 1997, when he was 67. "He helped so many people," said daughter Juliana Auel. "By the time it got to him, he didn't have anything left for himself." Rick England 129th AHC Bull Dog 431 The Iron Butterfly RVN Jan 68 Jan 69
Rick England
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 10:45:58 (MST)

I dont remember who the men were in the show,,thanks guys for reminding me, I just remember round eyed girls.I gotm lucky with a mission once,, got to fly miss korea padget around to their firebases.I was told to be on my best behavior,not to drool.(as if).If I remember, they to smelled like kim chee. yuck,For the life of me , i never understood why he had to get into ur face to talk to you.Smile, they sure didnt like getting pushed off the bird when it was hovering above what they thought was close enough.I had one get up and draw down on me with his m-16.I had my 60 pointed at him tho,knew he was going to be angry.All his buddies were laughing at him.Smile, perhaps that day it was a little high off the ground when i pushed him. Was anyone on the c.a. we had when we picked up the koreans on the other side of thrie compound? Was the biggest i was ever on.It seemed like there was a hundred birds there.I think thats when command had 50 cals mounted on birds to cease fire cause rounds were bounching up and just missing incomeing birds.Was a surreal vision, just like a john wayne movie. smoke and fire from rockets going off, grass fires burning,gun ships rolling in. It had to be aug or sept of 71 i think.I think 61st was there also. not surewas a huge c.a.I think the guns were still ..what..b models.C models? dang, memorys slipping into mists of time.
alvis
USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 07:56:13 (MST)

Frenchie, what a great idea to try to date the stories. I appreciate/love the memories that are now being shared, and in the sharing of them, I also feel the healing and smiles they bring. The mood of the 129th web page has, as Frenchie stated, changed, and it is wonderful to see the direction it has taken, whether for the moment or henceforth. Always-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Pleasantville, USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 07:49:44 (MST)

Kim, I also remember going over to see Mr. Greenjeans... one of the round-eyes, as I recall was his niece!
Dave Powers <powers@montrose.net>
Montrose, Colorado USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 07:10:43 (MST)

PLEASE KEEP OFF FOR THE GEE MEN.
MUGU OLUSEGUN <ABASANJO.@MUGU@COM>
ALABAMA, CA USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 05:07:51 (MST)

You did great job, so I figured to sign your guestbook and let you know. God bless you. Jon from New York.
Jon
Ny, Ny USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 05:04:57 (MST)

You did great job, so I figured to sign your guestbook and let you know. God bless you. Jon from CA.
Jon
Ny, Ny USA - Thursday, January 30, 2003 at 05:04:44 (MST)

Explain
Bulldog322
USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 23:13:39 (MST)

Hi Gang, OK I really like the como, ME: Mar 68 to Apr 69 Please letÕs do the reality check, the time frame is very important to the flow of the charter. All of the stories are wonderful but the times of the 129th are as different as the flow of sand through the hourglass. The never-ending change of people, and the experience of the crusade of values are such that, only the people that are in the time brackets can understand. I am very interested in the history of our unit. Now that flow of information is leveled to what we do remember, the sight has a new meaning. LetÕs not forget that we were not infallible , that we were flawed and that we were thrust in to a situation that was for the most part non defendable.. I like the fact that I was, to somebody a memory of a one of the most pungent part of a life history. We are a part of history and can assume that our recollection of the times is pure ,to the extent that we know, what we know. I have tried to make a chronological order of the comments that are made, but with out dates, it is relatively impossible. At least month and year would make the history flow. Times have overlapped with the constant rotation of people. We are speaking of the HISTORY of a outstanding legacy. The good , the bad, and the ugly ... Tell it from the heart , from the gut , and from the time line. Thanks .... Frenchie
Frenchie <fren6222@bellsouth.net>
Sugar town, Ga USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 23:05:43 (MST)

Burn one for me Fred. ;-)
Larry Kwiatkowski <Chrger66@aol.com>
Simi Valley, ca USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 21:14:57 (MST)

I don't remember the Orderly Room getting fragged ( must have happened after 11 Mar. 70) but I remember the tear gas several times. the second time it happened it about killed a few of us. I really felt sorry for Les Sprague, he had a combination lock on his locker and couldn't see the numbers long enough between breaths to get it open. so with his face stuffed in his pillow he shouted numbers to me and I got it open for him. after that we hung our masks next to our heads so they were easy to get to. we always blamed the infantry unit over the hill for that. guess maybe I owe those guys an apology LOL. I do remember one night when the first shirt and a few others went through a hooch. when they got done there was nothing but 4 walls standing and gave the guys till morning formation to get it squared away for his inspection. lockers, beds, refrigerators, everything was inspected and if it wasn't issue except for the refrigerators and a couple sterios, it didn't go back in. if I remember correctly there was about a 50# pile of love beads that went to the trash. I don't remember what month it was but I think it was around Jan or Feb. because I don't think it was too long before I came back to the world. on another note: I am trying to re work my web page and I would like to post a picture of the guys along with the information about them. so here is where I ask a BIG favor. if you have a pic of any of our MIA/KIA's please send me one or two. I would like a jpg. if possible. I will post it as a link from the web site I have. I hope to have the new page ready to post in a week or so and can add the pic's as I get them. but the main page will have a new look. hope you like it when I get done. Later, Don
Don Miller <hogleg244@yahoo.com>
Valley Farms, AZ USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 20:43:15 (MST)

I remember going to the 61st hanger and watching the Lumpy Barnum USO show. he was Mr. Greenjeans on Captain Kangaroo!!! He had a couple round eye chicks with him, which made it worth while....When I was at Long Binh, I got to see Bob Hope's USO tour, along with a couple thousand other gi's. It was the first time I ever saw a teleprompter. I never knew those people were reading from a script!!!!Durh!!!
Kim La Voie
USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 19:59:28 (MST)

crab..not crap
alvis
USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 19:01:43 (MST)

hey fred scaggs, that factory anywhere close by you? hope not..the one that blew up today..loked like hell incarnate on tv Kim, Seems a few name u mentioned ring a bell. hey JIm, was shakey pete the guy that always palyed spades with us?Young,skinny,kinda of a newbie.Hmm griffith..was he from indiana?around 20 or so? dang, I just cant remember lots of people,stuff,yes faces.. yes, names ,,shrug. but foster,griffith shakey and higdon sure seems familar.Where you around when the crap epidemic broke out? They dusted the crappers for weeks,seems u got rid of them,boom,then got again.everyone had bottles of that stuff u rub on you.Now that was a "war is hell" case if i ever experienced it. chuckle.Hmm, remembers ..maybe it was miss america show over the hill near 61st.remembers when the typhon hit chu lia,blew it away.its was supposed to hit us and went north at last minute.man, what parties we had down in the flight line hut.Jim, i am still trying to get the pic with u in it.If i remember correctly, u showed great enthesuasim in unaware placeing folks neck deep in that ice cold beer trough.Dang,I still remember hitting that cold water and i believe u standing there cheering. chuckle.
alvis
USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 19:00:19 (MST)

Sorry about double post, did it from work-computer there is not my friend! Forgot to add that tne ROKs went out and took care of that drunk ARVN. Jim Simm's picture is in gallery someplace.
jeff sauers
USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 16:59:41 (MST)

Ron, Freddie, et al. I remember Jim Simms, callsign was Foghorn I would think from his deep booming voice. He was a good dude and good pilot as well. Reading all this stuff really brings back some memories. Does anyone remember when the drunk Marvin-the-ARVN was lobbing M79 rounds on to Lane? I think that was the nite some young and maybe not to bright 2nd platoon pilots were holding the two dishwashers in their black pjs "prisinor" inside one of the bunkers. I think the pilots were Hobie, Spud Weaver, myself and maybe North Witcher. Not sure any of our .38s were loaded. I think we were as scared as they were. I do remember the fraggings etc. What a hell of a place to be. Also I think when Freddie shot that dog it was the first thing he had hit in Nam! Also remember the nite someone ripped off a mag of M16 on full auto. Think I went ahead a threw those underwear away. Tim V.-I just do not think I could handle -47. Doesn't blood freeze b4 that? Ron D. thanks for the kind words about the VA. Everyone take care! Fred I will answer your E-mail this evening if the spouse doesn't have a list for me. I do agree with the basic content and conclusions.
jeff sauers
USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 13:53:35 (MST)

Fred Skaggs, I can't really place you but i was at lane the same time frame as you 69/70. Curt Frank was in my hooch along with Ray Smiley. Ray Gagner was my gunner The Judge 265 was my ship. I didn't do much drinking when i was over there myself. I was happy with some C rats and a coke. I was Larry Jackson's Gunner for a few months when i first got in country, and i remember Ray tried to out drink Larry one day when we were off. The 1st Sgt called a formation and it was hotter than hell out and i saw Ray starting to wobble around in formation and then fell. I am planning on going to Atlanta this year. Hope to see you and possibly remember your face. Rob
Robbie
Rochester, NY USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 06:32:31 (MST)

I thought yours was cool so I figured I'd sign your guestbook and let you know. Matt www.gtahotels.com
Matt G <gta@gtahotels.com>
LA, CA USA - Wednesday, January 29, 2003 at 05:55:59 (MST)

Damn...must have had a buzz, meant to say "not terrorist" in my last commo..........
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 22:18:08 (MST)

Kim and Fred A. ........You big dopers...LOL...I never did anything in my life but smoke reefer.....No Acid, No Mescaline, No Heroin, No Cocaine,No Speed......Nothing. But I`ve tried to smoke all the pot in the world...and I do mean the world. In Nam it was strictly grape sodas and reefer. No alchohol at all... Curt Frank and Pete Rhome use to make fun of me for not drinking. But I started smokin pot in the summer of 1967, between my Junior and Senior year of high school. That`s when I started smoking Kool cigarettes, they tasted so good after a joint. In basic training and LPC I didn`t smoke any because I didn`t have access. But as soon as I got to AIT, I brought a bunch back from home. I was a squad leader so they never really thought I was a bad kid. I was sent to Ft.Belvoir,VA. permanent party and that was close to D.C. that was great times. I`d go to Georgetown University campus and College Park,Maryland and had no problems finding it there. When I got orders for Nam in November of 69, I almost cried at first....then a smile came on my face...that`s where the best shit in the world is!!!!!. I`ve been smoking it for 36 years now and it never effected my cognitive develpopement or anything like that. It`s great for my arthritis. I worked my job everyday and carried on a normal life. If I had kids it might have been different. So now that the big secret is out....if you guys don`t want to hang out with me...it`s OK...I understand, but most of the people I get it off of are old tabacco farmers in Kentucky or old horticulturist friends. I can assure you all that they are terrorist, most of them are Nam vets themselves. It`s just Xmas money for them. I`ve pretty much run the cycle here. So it`s time to move on and exit this web-site get back to living. Some of you all, I love to death and some of you can really piss me off. But I don`t disrespect anyone or hate anyone or dislike anyone. It`s like any other group people, you got to take the bitter with the sweet. Talkin about Nam is emotionally to draining for me. KEEP THE FAITH BROTHERS....Let me go burn one!!!!!!!!
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 22:13:57 (MST)

Good evening flight. Finally got a night off - lots of storms here and great snow. Went from -6 below/windchill -33 below at 11:30 Saturday night - got up at 6 a.m. Sunday and it was 47 degrees ABOVE zero - gotta love those Chinook winds!!?!? Just to catch up. Doesn't anybody remember Capt. Simms?? He was our (black) 2nd flight platoon leader for some time. Awesome guy. Great pilot and all-around great guy. I remember one afternoon we were inserting some Koreans into an LZ somewhere - we were lead ship - went into LZ and took fire. We kicked our Koreans out - chock 2 behind us gave us cover fire to get out. We were taking fire from everywhere it seemed but come out without a scratch. Capt. Simms turned around with a grin on his face - "DeBates - you look pretty white!" I said, "Captain Simms - you look a little white too!!" Scared the living shit out of all four of us on board. But when he turned around with that grin - I knew we were alright. Like to meet him again some day and thank him for doing a good job. Freddie - I remember the night - VERY WELL - of that one fragging. I jumped out of bed - dressed for flares - grabbed my M16 to head to the flight line because we thought it was incoming mortars. Outside the hooch - I was on the first level - our steps went between the orderly room and that little supply shack - was a cement staircase. Something told me to get down, and I hunkered down low on them steps. That blast was so close I felt the heat from the grenade and the fragments hit the hooch above me. Freddie's hooch. I still think to this day, that there are guardian angels out there. And one was with me that night! I don't remember that much racial trouble between us, but I spent alot of time in the hooch reading. Where I did run into the racial trouble was when I got to Germany. It was a whole different world over there - coming from Montana where we only had a few black people in the "cities." Every one I ever met was a terrific person. I think things steadily got worse after I left in the latter part of 72. Glad I missed it. You all take care out there - Fred - I owe you a couple phone calls and a HUGE belated birthday wish. I'll have a life again one of these days!! Working for a power company sucks when the weather is bad. Gotta plug the VA system a little though. Absolutely red carpet treatment for my dad - and now me. Fort Harrison (Helena)Montana is second to none. God Bless those who choose that profession - sometimes against all odds. Hats off to you guys and gals. Take care all. Always a brother, Ron
Ron DeBates <rebate@mcn.net>
Big Timber, MT USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 22:11:40 (MST)

Fred Alvis....we must have crossed paths over there. I remember all too well the night the fool tried to fly back to the world, and got pancaked! I was Terry Walker's newbie, when I went to the guns. I spent most of my time with Wes Griffith,Shakey Pete,Browny, Ernie Johnson,Don McCort and Smitty, from the guns. Elmer Woods Kinne,Barba,Foster,Higdon,Jellison, a lot of the slick chiefs. My newbie was Stretch McKinney, who ended up on the light ship, after the Ah-1'S came in. I lost 212 in an accident at Pleiku, we hooked a piece of psp on take off. From there I went tdy to Long Binh, where we trained Royal Thai Air Force on huey gunships. That was from mid November, through February 72. I know I flipped out when I got back to Lane, and saw those cobra's!One of my more memorable times at Lane was one night I punched out the chief TI, a guy named Malletto. Lucky for me, he was drunk, otherwise, I probably would have got hurt! Thinking back at some of the times over there, I still can't get over how everything looked like plastic, during the monsoon season. I've eaten mescaline before, and there was something about going to the flight line on one of those overcast days, when nothing looked like it was real. I get a kick out of people talking about monsoon season, like it was nothing but torrential downpours for days on end, mostly it was just cloudy, low ceilings, with a lot of drizzle. Usually it would pour for a little while, every afternoon. We had a couple brothers who flew in the guns, as a team. Stanley "love dog" Roberts, and his side kick, El Chico Smith. Good people, anywhere, any time. You're right about the pressure they were under to not get involved in the fighting. Hang in there, brother. Kim
Kim La Voie
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 20:18:33 (MST)

I have been in contact with Richard at DEEMI-SAR they are going to restore the Iron Butterfly to the 129th colors with the help of Tropical Helicopters in Florida. I will call them tomorrow.
Rick England
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 16:26:58 (MST)

Max...Great stories.....Don`t think I would deal with a Cobra any different than the dozer operator. But to add to my Elephant Story...I was on the "snoopy low" and caught them out of the corner of my eye at the 4:00 position. I got excited, and told the pilots," I had hippopotamuses at the 4 o`clock position"....as we turn right to check them out, everyone started laughing at me. The AC said,"Skaggs where I`m from we call them elephants". I just got excited and couldn`t come up with the right name.It may sound crazy, but Viet-Nam was a beautiful country. Early morning flights going north on the beach.....sun coming up on the sea....just so serene and calm....the whoop whoop of the rotor blades didn`t seem to break the calm of the moment....pretty special block of time.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 15:27:33 (MST)

Fred, yes, the Siamese Crocodile is the native species; it has become endangered. I think most of them are in the Mekong Delta area. Some elephants were killed by gunships ('66 or early '67) just west of DBT; they weren't supposed to be in that area so intel figured they were being used by Charlie to carry in supplies. Got a million animal stories, but one of my favorites: we were doing an insertion into a hot LZ when a big deer jumped up and started running; all the tracers on the right side focused in on the poor animal; C&C was screaming his head off for us to stop shooting at "that goddamn damn deer ... he can't shoot back!..." The ARVNs we dropped off later thanked us for it Ñ it added a tasty addition to the dried crap they carried around for rations. One more: Qui Nhon ('65 - was still with my prior unit), an engineer was clearing some brush for the Marines base to expand; a huge cobra came over the dozer's blade and the engineer un-assed the dozer without taking the time to shut it down; the dozer continued on right through a village, destroying about a half-dozen homes; luckily, no one was injured; I saw it afterwards.
Max Whittington
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 14:26:25 (MST)

HELLO FILIGHT.... RICK I LIKD WHAT YA YOU SAID BUT SAD PART IT COULD HAPPEN JOKING.. JUST CAME TO SAY HELLO TO ALL MY SISTERS AND BROTHERS...ABROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET MD, MD USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 12:41:10 (MST)

When NASA was preparing for the Apollo Project, it took the astronauts to a Navajo reservation in Arizona for training. One day, a Navajo elder and his son came across the space crew walking among the rocks. The elder, who spoke only Navajo, asked a question. His son translated for the NASA people: "What are these guys in the big suits doing?" One of the astronauts said that they were practicing for a trip to the moon. When his son relayed this comment the Navajo elder got all excited and asked if it would be possible to give to the astronauts a message to deliver to the moon. Recognizing a promotional opportunity when he saw one, a NASA official accompanying the astronauts said, "Why certainly!" and told an underling to get a tape recorder. The Navajo elder's comments into the microphone were brief. The NASA official asked the son if he would translate what his father had said. The son listened to the recording and laughed uproariously. But he refused to translate. So the NASA people took the tape to a nearby Navajo village and played it for other members of the tribe. They too laughed long and loudly but also refused to translate the elder's message to the moon. Finally, an official government translator was summoned. After he finally stopped laughing the translator relayed the message: "Watch out for these pricks. They have come to steal your land."
Rick England <bd431@mindspring.com>
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 11:06:46 (MST)

Max.....A mongoose...that`s neat....I never knew they were illegal in the states. They are tuff little animals. I`ve seen elephants in Nam and tigers. We were doing "snoopy missions" and ran into a herd of elephants. It upset me because the Cobra`s wanted to go hot on them. There was a big heated debate on that. So we let them go, thank god. Now I saw a tiger up by An Khe. It was so beautiful to watch it run and so much bigger than what had seen in a zoo. Was there alligators or crocodiles in Nam? Seems like there was, but can`t remember.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 06:51:03 (MST)

From a letter to my mom, Phan Rang, July '66: "You know what I'm going to try to get for you before I go home? Ñ a baby mongoose. We have one around here and he's really beautiful; he's got a shape like a fat mink with a fat tail, and acts just like a cat Ñ purrs and loves to be petted and rubbed under the neck. His fur is kind of shiny golden brown." (He used to run around under the floorboards in our tent at night, killing snakes and rats. Was a lovable little guy. Unfortunately, they're illegal in the U.S., so I didn't get to bring one home. Anyone else have one for a pet?)
Max Whittington
USA - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 02:18:59 (MST)

Your site is really good. You're welcome to visit my humble site too. Greetings!
discus <aquadesign@wanadoo.fr>
bordeaux, fr - Tuesday, January 28, 2003 at 00:32:11 (MST)

Kim.....I smoked LOOK cigarettes for ages. That`s Kool spelled backwards, it was common in my hood. I smoke PORTS now!!!!!(Newport). I went to about a 80% black Junior High, but being from rural Kentucky...I could shoot some hoop. Shoot the pill, throw up the rock. Plus Kentucky style ball was uptempo, playground style. I could keep up with the brothers.Plus I could dance, so I was accepted as one of the guys. So when I went to a 85% white High school, that was cultural shock for me. I never seen Penny Loafers, and Madras Shirts, and Levi bluejeans, that`s what farmers wore. I wore Stacy Adams shoes pointed toe with Cuban heels, Ban-Lon knit shirts and dress pants, Low-cut Black Converse Tennis shoes. I was a good athlete in high school so I never had any problems I played sports. By the time I reached my senior year I had made the transition to Levi`s and Oxford shirts and Penny Loafers. And I was talking like a honkey again. I once ask a good friend, who happen to be black," why do you guys call us honkies". He said," When white guys talk, they talk through their nose". Honkin....But I could always walk on both sides of the street or road. But I could go home to my Grandparents in Southeastern Kentucky, and in 2 weeks you`d never know I was ever near a city. Guess I was always a Funky Honkey or a Gooood Cracker. LOL By the time I had made it thru the army I had made the full transition the counter culture hippie liberal. Now I`m just a middle class smuck, what a long strange trip it`s been.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 21:45:55 (MST)

i was there from july of 71 till same of 72.Smokes were used, as said b4, color didnt matter,was identified over radio.Socialy,blacks and whites didnt usually mix.Was a sigh of the times i guess,chucks war and all that it was called.whites had 3 general soical groups, the "heads",the "juicers" and those that followed and stayed close to their higher power.I suppose the blacks had the same groups.We had one newbie that was black, and he flew as a gunner. man loved to fly,and was a heck of a nice guy.Its a pity that the other "brothers",thru social pressure, made him stop flying.he was the only black crew member( non pilot) i ever knew of.Mr page and another black pilot were under those same pressures and more.it took alot of convection and strenght to withstand said social pressures.As far as drugs were concerned,they were rampet.One could trade a carton of cigs for a sand bag full of pot.Cant remember what smokes cost but was under 5 dollars.the "heads also had their pecking order.Scag (herion) users were looked down on as lowest of the low.top of that heap was pot smokers thatdidnt use while flying and wouldnt fly with anyone that did.There was one race fight that i remember.The blacks came invading the flight platoons for some forgotten reason.I wasnt involved in it.thank god.never was a fragging,but cs got popped a few times around the hootches.most every body respected one another,except,of course, the newbies.no one trusted them.they could get u killed.i guess its y a big brother kinda thing sprung up.When iwas there,a seasoned vet would take a newbie under his wing and try to teach him things to keep himself and his crew alive.was a form of self- perservation i guess.Almost every pilot i knew,knew his "stuff"poor peter pilots caught hell.but looking back, it was necesary.I personally only knew of 2 pilots that smoked pot.one was caught drying it in his hootch after koreans had it stuck in helmets as camo,and it was flying all around the cabins.i never heard of anyone hating command enough to try to hurt them,in the 129th.We were all dedicated,fly people and support people,race relations not withstanding. Now down at 60th ahc, it was a different story.this was in early 72.things got very "dreamscape" sort of speak.Everyone was cool with one another except for one new pilot we got in. He was an infrantry captian,wanted to shape everyone up.polish boots and all.Was a very poor pilot also and an even worse peter pilot.Guy stood maybe 5 foot 5 and had a chip on his shoulder all the time.Being 6 foot and wearing hippie beads with my flight unifrom,he didnt take a general liking to me.feeling was mutual.After my roomies were kia,he and i got into it.he refused to fly to crash site,we had mail to deliver.I threatend to kill him and meant every word of it.They sent me to see doc, who then sent me to see a shrink in siagon.chuckle, man said all i needed was a week off there and to enjoy myself.i did, smile.was thrown in jail there by mp's cause i had on flight uniform. seems in siagon, u needed to wear dress greens.That was in april of 72.he and i were like a dog and cat after that,walking around each other but hair raised on back of neck.Every one hated him, he was a fool.to this day,please lord, i want to run into him again.its a 30 year old debt that needs setteling.smile, and i know he remembers me.I called him a liar when he had me locked hills in front of the commander.He even disliked him.anyway, just about the only time juicers and heads mixed was at partys at the EM club.singers,dancers,band,good time had by all.Oh,the barber (vietnamies) was the scag dealer at 60th ahc.tried it, didnt like it.The company medic over dosed(a newbie) there.everyone laughed about that one as we shook our collective heads.had a newbie cut the head off compant pet monkey there to.They shiped him out quick.only 2 times i knew of people doing acid or mescaline.first was when that idiot dropped acid at anson and tried to fly a helicopter home. he crashed in the reventment,ot flight line, cant remember.Second time was a friend on mine (yes, from calif) had some sent to him.he wasnt on flight status, but i was.i had a few days off,so what the heck.people wonder what we were smiling about.shrug. young and dumb i was.didnt care about alot,but my friends and crew.That was number one pryority in my life at that time.One didnt let down his crew,it was a team effort.One needed to know he could depend.,your life depened, on that other guy.and that ,my friends,is y the brotherhood still exist today.I loved my friends,is hard to explaine,isnt a homo thing,but god, we were close.closer than family.no one understands the brotherhood of the gun,except folks that were there.We can argue and fight,but buddy, dont let a outsider try to get between us.crap, i am rambleing now,be safe my friends.Jim Westwang. a high 5 to you.Kim , your name sure does ring a bell.
alvis
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 21:01:08 (MST)

Mark, coming from lily white Maine, I got quite a culture shock when I got off the plane at Newark Airport, on my way to Ft. Dix. There were about two dozen brothers on the bus to Dix, and one of them asked me if I had a Kool. I was totally blown away, the idea that someone would be fussy when bumming a cigarette!!!!! I used to smoke raleigh straights, and offerred him one, his answer.....whattafug u thing i wanna peice o shit like that honkey??? I don wanna lip burnnin nasty ass trashin smoke, I wanna Kool! Dude's name was Lighty, he was from somewhere in New York city. I'd never even seen a black man before, except when Sugar Ray Robinson came to the Lewiston Armory, sometime in the early sixties. it's funny, the things that stay with you, a comment here or there. I flew a hundred or so missions in nam, and only a couple stick with me. There are bits and pieces of others, but, for the most part, I guess I have to admit that there are weeks at a time where I don't have the foggiest idea what I did! Being on this site helps bring little bits and pieces back, for better or worse. I'm so far beyond what I did, or what happened, that it can't hurt me. I do marvel at the bits of information that come out, helping understand how normally intelligent people, politicians, let party politics dominate our lives! No one wanted to be seen as ` soft on Communism', so they let thousands die, and hundreds of thousands get injured, just to help their `PARTY' stay in power! Lemmings of the world, unite!!!! This isn't a rap on either political party, they both share the blame.
Kim La Voie
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 20:40:47 (MST)

.....Hey Did everybody fall a sleep???????
Mark jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 20:08:57 (MST)

...WOW guys, talking about being inside your minds..........reading the como of today has spell bounded me. Like reading a book of the times that you all spent over there. From one year to another.....very interesting............wanna thank all of you that have said kind words to us about our daughter. Thankjs a lot. This sting will pass also.......want to hear about what was going on in the Marine Corps as far as racial, and dope when I was in, 70/72. Well...Parris Island, is Parris Island, Bootcamp glad I was there.......Camp Lejeune, was Camp Lejeune, Combat training.....and I meen Combat training for the Nam.....I was ready!!!!!!!......did a stink in Cherry Point, and some schoolin' for the Flight Line.....did some schtuff at that time.......had a lil' black and white tentions at the time......got to OKI and the very first day, Im was in the transient barracks and a steel pipe comes flyin' through the door window......I picks up me boots and head out to a top of a hill in the compound..........200 whites on one side of the street, 100 blacks on the other side, in the middle 50 Jap riot cops with sawed off shot guns.....me is thinkin', what the hell have I gottin' myself into this time.............my next room neighbor in the barracks on Oki was the leader of the Black Panthers on the base at the time. Which at that time was a recgonized org. Never had a problem between us.........seem to get along just fine.........being a rural, Ohio Clod hopper at the time......any type of that stuff was all new to me...........turned out, all of us just did our job and got along just fine. Did some good stuff on Oki, but did more drinkin' then anything........turned out , my neighbor (who's dad owned a grocery store right next to my house, which I used to steal a bottle of screw driver out of to take to school and stash in my locker), was stationed on Oki at the same time in the Army.........spent most of my time off there......his wife was there also. So it was good to see a "round eye" every weekend..........man she sure could make some snott drinppin' chilli over there...........still see them in the Pop-A-Top ever so often!!!!!..........just wanna tell ya all thanks for thinkin' of us at this time......and very great to see all the como in here about your days of past..........like reading a history book. The school kids should come in and read some of this stuff............sounds like Mr. Hans Blix put a nail in Saddams cofin today to the UN...........you all take care, Bless you all, and thanks for being out there.....as I have siad before, and will say again.......keep talking, you guys are saying the things that Larry would be talking about to me now.................always a brother..............Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 17:41:15 (MST)

Kim...Qui Nhon ammo dump must have been blown up at everybodies tour of duty. The black guys "colors" was "black liberation colors". They wore black wrist bands also, made out of shoe strings. Pete Rhome and I went to the EM club to pick up a pizza, and while we were there a fight broke out over the "white guys" blocking the view of"black guys" from seeing a floor show. A black fellow from the 61st AHC, hit me in the back of the head with a full beer can. I had to have 14 stiches in my head. Knocked me out cold, Pete Rhome wrapped my head with his nomex shirt. The pizza was "to go" also. That EM club was a joke, bunch of neebees gettin loaded on beer.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 16:26:10 (MST)

Tom: I was on guard duty in the bunker by the main gate. I remember the OD coming around collecting the coffee mugs that he had sent out that rainy night. The guy with me fell asleep on his shift. But, lucky him nothing was ever said. Somebody was looking over him. I read of all the parties guys had. Never seen but, one it's was around Christmas or new Years at the fire Station. Late Dec. 1967. Alex
Alex <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, Tn USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 15:51:15 (MST)

OOPS!!!I didn't mean to denigrate Top Stroupe! He was a good guy. Old School, tough as nails, fair. honestly, just a typo
Kim La Voie
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 15:22:08 (MST)

By the time I got there, we were used to calling the color of smoke, after it was thrown. Apparently, the other side got wise to colors meaning something. The drill went...popping smoke, over...I see goofy grape, over.....roger, you got it, over...we'd get directions from there, and blast whatever was asked of us. In 71, there was a bunch of stupid things going on, black vs whites at the em club. Blacks wearing a patch, I forget the colors.....red, black, green??? The Base Commander stopped that by ordering all unit patches below company to be removed from our uniforms. Mr, Lovejoy endeared himself to us by tearing the heart out of his Cobra patch, and leaving the outer ring attached to his uniform. We got in the habit of saving a shirt to wear when we were of site, with the patches still on. First shit Stroupe had a system where the newbies would pull guard until replaced by other newbies. That fell apart when the replacemants stopped coming in. I think I was on guard for about six weeks. The worst thing that happened at that time was a guy in delta 7/17 blew his head off one night with a pistol. I was on duty when the ammo dump at Qui Nhon blew up. That kinda kept us awake for the night.After that, I went to the the maintenance plt, which is where the racial hostilities came out. There wasn't a lot of that stuff in the flight platoons, we all got along pretty good, black, white, juicer, freak....There was a lot of distrust of newcomers, till it was acertained that one could be trusted to not snitch on the freaks. We had a few junkies there, they used to break down the boxes of ammo, do the little shit details that no one else wanted to do. i don't know where the expression `Peter Pilot' came from. It was in use when I got there. One of our duties was to pop the p-pilot with an op rod when requested by the pilot,just to reinforce a point..As I recall..there wa an expression~pppt...piss poor piloting technique, to describe any number of wrong doings.When it involved the peter pilot, the expression became ~ppPpt. Extra P was for, Peter. Like everyone before, flight duty was voluntary. No way would I have gone off status, just to return to the maintenance plt!....One of my assignments before nam wa at Hunter Army Airfield, Ga. WE worked maintenance for the Advanced piloting school, which trained VNAF. That wasn't the official name, I just can't remember what it was.
Kim La Voie
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 15:17:53 (MST)

Ron DeBates will remember when the 129th got fragged, he was headed for the flight line because he was on flare ship that night.He thought it was "in coming",and almost got himself killed. My hootch was hit also, looking to the bunkers in the back from the front, was Albert (Sancho)Sanchez to the left, on the right was Ron DeBates, then my cubicle and across from me was Bobby Carter, a tranfer from the 173rd Airborne, that had just become a crew chief. Up front was Charlie Solomon, he was a transfer of services, from Marines to the Army. That little fragging put little holes in the top of our hootch. And to this day, I know who did it. But that person went to LBJ later on from something else they did. I`ve still got pictures of the guy that did it. And the guy that gave the person who fragged us the frags, is in our Contact Section of the web site. He got kicked out of the 2nd flight platoon because of his heroine habit. They put him in the arms room, for the rest of his tour of duty. I`ve got a memory like a elephant. Now I was there in December of 1970, and our First Sargent was a tall thin white guy from Kentucky!!! Hard core old guy.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 14:21:24 (MST)

I was there from dec 69-Dec 70. My hootch and room wuz right next to the CO and 1st Shirt. I don't remember exactly when it happened but 2 times someone tossed a CS grenade into their hootch and one time it was a frag grenade. The 1st shirt caught a little shrapnel from the HE in his arm. I don't think race had much to do with it. The CO wuz a brother and the 1st shirt wuz white. I think it wus mostly 'cause the 1st shirt wuz a jerk and pissed off a lot of the EM. I know I got REALLY upset 'cause my room was right next to theirs and I didn't want to get caught up in someone else's feud. ANyhow, that'swhat I remember.
Larry Kwiatkowski <Chrger66@aol.com>
Simi Valley, CA USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 13:33:46 (MST)

Alex,Tom,Max...it`s real interesting to read about your time in Nam, it really is. Guard Duty at night was a excuse to party when I was there....guys would drink this stuff call Obesetal( French diet drink) speed for general purpose. They didn`t sleep all night long. Also they would get LSD from the states, mostly the California boys. And LSD and a starlight scope was a dangerous mix, those guys would be seeing shit that wasn`t there. They would open up with a M-60 and all hell would break loose. Flight Crews didn`t pull guard duty at night when I was there. Only day time guard duty. Now there was a black LTC, post commander, he gave orders to shoot anything like animals or whatever that would get in the wire. The animals would set off our "trip flares". But he(the LTC) had a little brown dog that was always with him. Well one day I was on guard duty and the LTC was on the flight line doing something, and his little dog got in the wire for some reason. Off went a trip flare, and I saw the dog....so I level my M-16 and shot the LTC dog. Boy did I get my heels lock on that one. The LTC was crying like a baby and SGT. Meeks was dead in my butt. I was only obeying the orders I was told to do. I know it sounds sick, but it was funny after all was said and done. Sgt. Meeks thought it was funny also. Of course you guys never had the pleasure of flying with a VNAF peter-pilot. Oh yes, they were fresh from Ft.Wolders, Texas I think.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 13:23:25 (MST)

Alex- No, I donÕt remember anything specific like that before I left. Just a feeling that it was all getting a little more insane that it already was. We typically had four or five ÒBÓ model guns ready or fairly ready or somewhat ready to get up and go (you maintenance guys and crew chiefs saved all our butts keeping those birds in the air). We typically had seven or eight gun pilots when I was there so we were either on a five-minute or a 30-minute standby all the time. In todayÕs terms, I guess that meant we didnÕt get out a lot except to fly. Only remember one incident and that had to do with a sleeping perimeter guard and a young Warrant, me, who could have handled it better the one and only time I pulled the OIC duty. Other than that, I and I think most of the gun platoon had little to do with the day-to-day happenings on the hill. My main memory of it is just flying ø a lot, shooting ø a lot, and finally getting back to the world and waiting for the phone to ring in the hooch for another mission. Soothsayer, 67-68
Tom Shanahan <Shanahan00@Cox.net>
Phoenix, AZ USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 11:46:05 (MST)

Yes!! Max ( SGT. TWIGGY ) your memory is getting better. Was no racial and drug problems when we were there. That I was aware of. Of coarse we were scattered everywhere. A few birds here and a few birds there. Mostly there!! My second tour a few guys smoke a little pot and Lane. But, that was just a very small few and no racial problems . Tom S. You left the same time I did in april 68. Do you remember any thing like that going on??? But, before coming back to the 129th in 67. I was stationed in Vung Tu. Now there was pot smoking down there. Of coarse it was an R&R center too!! Of coarse being a 67n20 Vung Tu was a short lived time. Max hope your memory remains you of Atlanta the 3rd week of June!!! Mark and Dee sorry to hear about your daugther's lost. Your family is in our thoughts and prayers. Looking to see that new bike!! On vaction this week. Got some VHCMA bussiness to take care of. Then Liz, my comand sargent major is going to have lasser eye surgery this week. You all pray for her because I will be the one trying to nurse her for a few days. I guess she will let me know on weds. if she have it this week. Take Care To all of you. Alex
Alex <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, TN. USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 11:00:25 (MST)

Hey Don Miller and Ton Shannahan I think it is going to 82 degrees today we are going to have a find day. HEHEHEHE. Gus good luck on that fishing. What do you catch there in the winter? Walleye or frost bite. The bass are going to start making their nests soon and the fishing is going to be great. Mark sorry about your daughter let us know how she is doing. Thanks to all for being here and be careful out there.
Rick England <bd431@mindspring.com>
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 09:08:00 (MST)

Max... The first time I remember hearing the term Peter Pilot was in a song sung by a group called the Four Majors who were 4 Army Majors who got together and sang their songs at DBT and Tuy Hoa before I got there if memory serves right. I had some of their stuff on an old Akai 9 track but that has turned to dust now. The lyrics were something like, Peter, Peter pilot watch where you go, youÕre flying over Charlie low and slow, Peter, Peter pilot watch where you turn, CharlieÕs tracers have an awful burnÉÉÉÉÉÉ Could be that my memory is screwed up on that but thatÕs where I remember it from. Red smoke was reserved for hot targets. Other colors were, you throw it, IÕll identify it and you confirm it. Too many times the good guys would throw smoke and a few seconds later smoke would be coming out of the trees all over the place. They had better radios than we did and sure knew the languageÉÉÉÉÉÉ And yes, things were changing there just before I left in April of '68. Cobra Soothsayer, 67-68
Tom Shanahan <Shanahan00@Cox.net>
Phoenix, AZ USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 08:53:20 (MST)

Max...I think after the death of MLK, things changed alot in the nation period. Plus alot of the "big city" black kids were influenced by organizations like the Black Panther Party and so forth. When you were there most of us youngbloods, were in high school. And when we enlisted, alot of us pretty well knew where we were going and the expectations were of us. The fragging....well the aspect of " go in the army or go to jail" played into that. Alot of those guys were criminals and thugs before they got to Nam. They had no respect for authority to begin with. I also found a big difference between the white kids that were from the big city and the white kids from rural area`s clashed alot. My time in Nam also had the "Woodstock Generation", which took things to next level. Plus even in basic training I noticed a that Drill Sargents that had not been to Nam, but to NCO school and became a Drill Instructor. And the cadre that had been to Nam, and was waiting for 14 to 18 months to go by and get out. They had philosophical differences in the approach of training us. I `ve sit around and listened to anti-war talk by young sargents that were part of the cadre. I think all those influences made the late 60`s and early 70`s soldier a different animal. I guess that`s why I never really bitched about Nam alot, I enlisted. I ask for it, just another stepping stone in life, to get where I wanted to be in life. The war effected me in different ways. But as far as the black and white issues, I`m speaking from a white -man`s point of view. It`s to bad we don`t have any black brothers to loge on and give us some insight on that subject.
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 08:19:36 (MST)

Mark, Sorry to hear about your daughter's miscarriage. I hope she is ok. When you get a picture of that new ride, send me an email... Rob
Robbie
Rochester, NY USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 06:36:33 (MST)

OTHER CHANGES AFTER I LEFT THE 129TH IN MARCH OF '67 (OR AM I TOTALLY LOSING MY MIND?): When did "peter-pilot" become the name for the right-seater? We just referred to the pilots as the "AC" and the "pilot" (never "co-pilot"). I never heard the term peter-pilot until long after I had been back in the states. Where did it come from? (A few were dick-heads, but I doubt that's it... [grin]) --- Red smoke meant ENEMY-TARGET!, and could be fired on by anyone Ñ gunships, fast-movers, Puff, etc. Yellow, green, and purple smoke were used for everything else. When did red start getting used for everything, and why? (I cringe every time I see red smoke popped for a dustoff or extraction on t.v. or in a movie; we would have lit up the friendlies near it in a heartbeat.) --- As I mentioned in my previous post, all flight crewmembers were volunteers. We could "hang up the helmet" at any time, even when refueling during a combat mission Ñ officers who quit got desk jobs back at DBT, or transferred out; enlisted men stood guard duty at DBT for the rest of their tours. There was a waiting list a mile long for troops who wanted to be crewchiefs and gunners. Did that change? --- I've read somewhere about fragging in the 129th. Did that happen? We had a really obnoxious high-ranking officer who, as well as being a prick also sinned once by panicking when coming out of a hot LZ and really screwing up our rotor blades (they don't work too smoothly when all the balancing balls end up in the tips); there was some talk of zapping him at some opportune moment, but he got the word and quit flying. That's the only time I heard of such a thing, until later. --- Speaking of which, "zapped" meant wounded, and "waxed" meant killed. Were those terms still in use, later on? I haven't come across them since I DEROSed. (Alex, am I remembering things right?)
Max Whittington <Max@OregonPI.com>
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 00:58:48 (MST)

Kim, I was sorry to read about the "racial tensions..." In my time with the 129th Ñ early '66 to March of '67 Ñ there wasn't the slightest hint of that, that I knew of. There was a black WO who had previously flown with the 1st Cav who was one of the most respected ACs in the unit. One of my two closer buddies was a black guy from the Carribian island of St. Thomas (his last name also happened to be "Thomas"), and I never heard the slightest disparaging remark about him, ever. We were an all-volunteer unit at that time, as I recall, so maybe that made a difference. No one got drunk or used drugs when he had to be available to crew, but I guess that changed as the war progressed, also. Too bad.
Max Whittington
USA - Monday, January 27, 2003 at 00:07:22 (MST)

Kim....I could listen to more Santana at half-time....I played baseball in high school and practice outside in March in Ohio...still used wood baseball bats back then....that Louisville Slugger would sting like hell when you didn`t hit the ball solid. No such thing as "batting gloves" back then. Mark.... that`s happen to Kim(my wife) and I twice...it was just to much emotional strain for us.
Freddie Skaggs
USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 21:11:24 (MST)

mark, i am so sorry to hear that news.a prayer has been said from here. yes , alton page has my upmost respect for the conditions he faced on and off the flight line.He was one heck of a pilot.I flew with him many times.no one was more professinal.he was very skilled and did have the balls when it came down to it.period.That being said,the rest aint nobodys biz. i was under the impression this was marks site. Only he has the moral and legal right to censure anyone.I will not have some one elses morals, convictions,or life style forced down my throat.if u dont like what i say,nor how i say it, then dont read my posting.Do not tell me how to speak.next thing someone will try and throw off people from this site.i dont give a flying crap if u like what i say or not. but is my right to express myself, anyway i want.is this not a free country and a site to all 129th peoples?Does opinion and beliefs expose one to belittlement?i didnt know that one has been appointed to the high chair of censure.My most humble apoligies, right... do not attack me again.
alvis
USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 21:07:34 (MST)

evening flight, just thought I would mention it last night we had a low of aroung 52 - 55 with a high of around 78 today .......... really tough weather around here this time of year. sorry about the double post. I hit something I shouldn't have. Y'all stay warm. Mark, sorry about the loss we lost one between our 2 that we have it is kinda rough to have happen to you. but I am glad you got your new bike even if all you can do at this point is look at it and shine it up more than it already is. hang in there everybody spring is coming soon. ......... Later, Don
Don Miller <hogleg244@yahoo.com>
Valley Farms, AZ USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 20:29:04 (MST)

evening flight, just thought I would mention it last night we had a low of aroung 52 - 55 with
Don Miller <hogleg244@yahoo.com>
Valley Farms, AZ USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 20:22:23 (MST)

Super Bowl??? More like SUCK bowl, that's the way it is, most every year. There haven't been three that were worth watching to the finish! I remember Mr. Page, aka shadow. He was a pilot in the 2nd? plt. Quite a calming force during some pretty tense times within the unit, due to racial issues. Guy had CLASS! Mark, my condolences on the news of the miscarriage. Even if it is meant to be, it's still a life taken.......Hanoi Jane...can't try her for treason, the gutless shits who were running the country didn't declare war. Just another publicity hungry dipshit out to get in front of a camera, to me. hell, even Johnny Cash sang songs against the fighting! Looking back, I'm not sure if I felt I was serving my country, or if I just wanted to experience combat first hand. Anti war protests had been going on for four years before I went over there. I was a mechanic who loved flying, so helicopters seemed to be the right thing. I wanted to get in on the fighting, but not so bad that I volunteered for the infantry. That came after the cutbacks in 72.....Fifty degrees???? WE play softball and Baseball in April, when there's still snow on the ground! Played a double header in May last year, snow the first game, freezing rain the second! Usually see a few fifty degree day's in April, but, it's not safe to put the summer tires on till mid May
Kim La Voie
Livermore, Me USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 19:23:04 (MST)

Fellas......The hell with the Super Bowl.....Santana stole the show....I could sit and listen to his live music for the rest of the night.....if he`s not my favorite...... he`s in the top 3 of all time. Weather....it got up to almost 50 today here in Raleigh....maybe it`s breaking here.....GO BUCS
Freddie Skaggs
USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 15:52:05 (MST)

.....Speekin' of the weather..........wasnt somebody speekin' of that????.....I think that I dont think, that I think, I know.....but I think someone was;-)))))).......Ohio has been a winter wonderland this year.....more snow today. I have kept track and this is the 16th time it has snowed here.........I know, not that much for other parts of the country.....but for the last 10 years.....more then we have had.........and very cold also.......like Friday.......5 degrees, white out conditions, wind chill of 30 below.....and guess what????...was the day our 2003 Harley was delieverd to us......DUH!!!!!!!.....now what do I do with her????????;-)))))))))....she looks pretty, but sure looks cold out in the garage.....got some blankies on her now!!!!!!!!!!!.................very interesting commo going on in here lately?............hope we all remember that we are just expressing our on opinions, which we all are entitled to........and that we know that at some time when we meet face to face, we all can embrace in the love and freedom that our brothers of the 129th guys fell for..........................hey.....is this the day that big football game is on?????......hey!!!!!!.......do I look like a Sports Bar??????;-))))))))))).....got the question all week if we were going to be open for the Super Bowl........probably will watch it......but in the comfort of my easy chair in the house................ATLANTA???YES!!!!!!.....will be there..............on a personal family note.....I did mention that our daughter Ambie Rain was expexting in July back during the Holidays.......last Tuesday she lost the baby............guess thats the way things go?........not like they forgot how to do it.....ya know;-))))))))).....not much more to say........sorry not here that much..........most times the pillow looks better then the keybook to sleep on................wish all of you all the best......in all that you do.........Thanks for being out there for me...............losing Larry did not hit me until about 6 years ago.......thus this site.........with out it, and all of you, I am afraid of where I might have ended lost at...................stick around for the duration, cause I am, and so is this site................We love all of you.......and believe me......I mean it when I say THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!always a brother, Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 15:43:21 (MST)

Jeff, Is it cold there? Try a -46 with windchill here, this morning. We've got a winter storm warning in affect for later today. Take care to all.
Tim Vreeman <timothyvreeman@msn.com>
Moorhead, MN USA - Sunday, January 26, 2003 at 15:39:16 (MST)

Shucks....I`m still tryin to learn to type without lookin at the board.....haven`t mastered that yet. As you can see in my last commo... Hang in there Max...you always have something redeeming to say.
Freddie Skaggs
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 22:28:37 (MST)

Jeff, I live in Beaverton, a suburb of Portland. Bend is my favorite area of the state, and I spend as much time as possible there in the summers, fly fishing in the streams and lakes to the south of the town. Due to the famous "vicissitudes of fate," my work and what's left of my family are in the Portland area, so here I stay. Also, I've been in and out of the VA Hospital the last few years, and it's located just a few miles from my current home. "Man proposes, God disposes."
Max Whittington
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 22:00:48 (MST)

FRED ALVIS.....what`s wrong....what a that rant in your commo? Somebidy messin with you or something? Who is Page? Alton Page? I`ve never seen him loge on. But he`s in the "contact section. Fred...your language was a little out of hand for a public forum.....but that`s you. Were all adults.....
Freddie Skaggs
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 20:17:43 (MST)

Max, What part of Oregon? My son lives in Bend. Beautiful country out there. Have really enjoyed our visits. I remember second week in July and making snow balls while it was snowing at Crater Lake. Take care.
jeff sauers
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 18:51:24 (MST)

My consolations to those of you suffering from the arctic front. It missed us here in Oregon. Two days ago I went to a local high school to contribute to the Living History Project (about Viet Nam), for the Library of Congress; the temperature got up to sixty degrees, and I was able to walk around with my coat off for the first time in months. In 1964, when I briefly was in San Antonio, Texas, San Antonio had its first snowfall in many years; one evening, my family and I Ñ all from the northwest Ñ sat on a hillside overlooking the city and listened to the continuous sound of cars crashing, as the Texans who had never before seen a snow flake tried to get around. I can't help but wonder how much auto insurance rates are going to go up after this winter!
Max Whittington
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 17:38:22 (MST)

hey mr.Page, shadow, the e mail i sent yopu was of jane fonda sitting at the guns of a nva anti-aircraft gun inplacement.they want to long that on as improper,then fuck them.as for ur email to me,fuck you too.If you find a pic of hanoi ja.ne sitting at guns inplacements ok, then i damn sure dont need to be talking to you.I god damn resent the the fact i was logged on as objected material.fuck you and the company u work for. do not e mail me again.
alvis
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 16:36:23 (MST)

Fred, Yes I did. I am damn glad I was not on vacation this week. We normally are but had too much work etc to do it this year. I am about to go out and finally shovel a narrow I repeat narrow path on front walk. Stay warm my friend.
jeff
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 10:03:30 (MST)

Fred Alvis, where is your son going to school or college? I`m alumni of University of Southern Colorado in Pueblo. I lived out there in Pueblo West off US RT.50, my ex-wife still lives in Colorado Springs. Pete Rhome....how did I forget you? You`re a "home boy" from Cleveland....but we don`t see you log on much anymore. Pete came lookin for me in the 70`s in Columbus at my mother`s bar....sorry Pete...they thought you were a "bill collector" LOL.......Jeff, did you see those people on the outer-banks snow ski on the sand dunes. Wildest thing I`ve seen in a while. Last year at this time in N.C. they were playing golf......
Fred Skaggs
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 09:58:06 (MST)

Jeff,Thanks for your input on the VA situation. You essentially said what I was trying to say in my post about the VA health care system. I'm a high percentage, service connected, disabled veteran, and get almost all of my healthcare from the VA outpatient clinic in Rockford, IL., and the Madison VA hospital. I was just treated for cancer in my left kidney in February of 2002. Two years ago I would have lost the entire kidney from Renal cell carcinoma. Thanks to a young DR. who was a recent graduate of the university of Cinncinnati, where they had perfected a new technique for treating this type of cancer, I have had a complete recovery, WITHOUT the use of chemotherapy or radiation. I also still have a complete and functioning left kidney. Other than the waiting, which, if you were to compare the hours spent waiting to the cost of outside medical care, will be the highest wages you will ever earn. That probably makes me biased in my favorable opinion of VA health care. I also wear a colostomy bag as a result of my service to my country, and I try to help keep my expenses to the system down any way I can, like washing and reusing appliances that I could just throw away. These are ways I try to reduce my cost to the system so it is available to more veterans. The nurse practitioner that left the RFD clinic about a year ago, and was my case manager, was putting in 16 plus hours a day at the clinic. There are many more in the system like her, so if at the end of the day they are a bit short tempered, cut them a little slack. If you must wait an hour or so, take a book, and think what your wages are for sitting on your hiney reading. Or better yet use that time to write a short note to your congressman supporting the VA system.
Ted Buisker <Skyking@stateline-isp.com>
Davis, IL. USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 09:27:01 (MST)

and my father also served in ww2, in the pacific,as a ground pounder,marine. he then served in korea ,army.he then got orders for vietnam in 1964. After 22 years in the service,he had had enough.When i recieved my draft notice in dec of 70.he pulled me aside and acutally told me he would support any decision i made toeards jions the service,or canada.The only thing he ask,when i said, heck with it, i am going to join and get a school. is ..please, dont join the army, which of course i immeaditly did.I volinteered for vietnam, and to fly as a door gunner/crew chief. I did take my 76n20 training at rucker.My 2 favorite mission were snoppy lows/ highs ..i loved the lows.Second one was flying in a bunch of hookers into tuy hoa ,under cover of darkness, for the xmas party there,We were on tdy thereto support mac v people inland from there.Thats where we were under fire while throwing out chu hoi leflets and they wouldnt let us fire back.quote" ita a peace mission, alvis, hold ur fire".That is also were.a week later, we almost crasher, then took fire at tree top level, and i red xed the ship due to damn near ever tourqe screw being lost due to "unusal" air frame stresses".Gabby was the pilot,they ship was beening lifted back to anson,when one strap broke and the chinook had to cut her loose over the south china sea.During the later investigation, gabby lost hie wings, i was transfreed to 60th ahc,( ghostriders) crew chief was sent home early. I never heard what happened to the peter pilot tho.Seems command didnt care for crew chief flying the bird, peter p in the gunners seat,and me in the crew chiefs seat. Dont bother trying to call me, my telephone hasnt been hooked up to the phone in a year and a half.it runs to my pc.There is no one i want to talk to on the telephone. no one.I sime at the inferance i dont support my brother nam vets. as i said b4,I think we need some warm weather, cabin fever is setting in.Oh yes, the french. fred ,I too lived in france a while.Almost married a lady while i was there.they are a very proud people.I spent 3 months in the high alps,loved every minute of it.But god, some of that home made wine is terrible. Jim Westwang,would like to come vist when i pass thru that area, hopefully this year.My soon to be Aussie step daughter might be up that way in a few months.Jim, i have 2 sons, the one that has the pics of you,well,lets just say he wont give me the time of the day, much less pics.I will continue to try as i know how much it means to you.He is in pleblo colorado,going to school.its a long story,and i am sure many nam vets have lived that story.Are you going to try to make it to atlanta? not sure if i can,but am going to try.I kinda grew up in columbus, ga and my dad is buried on ft. benning. Would like to vist his grave.
alvis
USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 09:07:02 (MST)

Well I have been reading everything that has appeared here for the past two weeks without much comment however I must now jump on board. I, as with Freddie, don't know most men an women who post here. The guys I do know, Freddie, Cups(who I arrived with and derosed with), Ron Debates, Matt Casey, Pete Rhone and a few more of the class of 69-70-71 I have considered friends for 30+ years. If I see a post from one of them I better understand where it is coming from. My main reason for posting this morning is to make a few comments aboout the VA situation. As a VA "insider" I feel obligated to tell everyone that, while venting frustrations here may make one feel better, it does nothing to fix the problem. I believe Max W. posted a very good explanation of how the system works. It is all about budget and nothing else. Since this budget is dictated by our congress that is who must hear the "voice" of the vets. Granted the vets have a few friends there ie John McCain, Kerry and a few more who have served but not enough. Each VA submits a budget request deemed necessary to provide care and services. What gets approved and allocated is another story. I have met very few VA employees over the years who do not subscribe to the saying- "The veteran comes first"! But you all must remember we have to operate with the money we have. That is why the 1 thru 8 priority system was established and the MEANS test was implimented. Without these, considering budget restrictions, the system would be like a 60 aircraft CA. Looks good on paper but a real goat rope in actuality. The only way we will ever get it changed is through active paticipation in service organisations, a strong lobby to congress and individual letters and phone calls to our elected officials. There are a lot of us and that translates to a lot of votes. To Gently I can only say I don't know about the MD stats but can say I have been fortunate to work with some very dedicated doctors at the hospitals where I have been. They too are frustrated with staffing levels etc. I hope this helps everyone understand things a liitle better. Just remember we must be proactive not reactive. Freddie, This weather sucks. I thought we were in the sunny south. Made it to hospital (30 miles) in 4 wheel drive without problem except for the natives driving 10 mph. Maybe we should start a winter driving school. Also how did the $275 dillars compare with outside price. I know Vioxx is super high. Also if Jerry runs for senate in Oh. you are welcome to become a native of Pa. and an honorary Penn State fan! Mae is seriously considering it!
JEFF SAUERS, RN BSN
HEFNER VA MEDICAL CENTER , SALISBURY , NC USA - Saturday, January 25, 2003 at 08:29:01 (MST)

Kim LaVoie,.....Duh yea... I remember Woodstock and Joan Baez`s song "Joe Hill"....kinda like Matwan,West Virginia...the mine owners brought in the Pinkerton Detectives to put down the miners striking....Don`t get to my history like I use to....You being a good Union President, you`re suppose to know that stuff My Union Brother. I was just a Chief Steward for AFSCME for 9 years.( "It`s six a.m. I`m out on the job...workin like a fool for my pay..... Big Boss comes up with a smile....says I got to go on stike today...Hey...Hey..Mister union man.... I`m not gonna pay my dues...I owe my landlord....I owe my doctor...all my kids need shoes )....Cate Brothers song 1976.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 21:54:14 (MST)

Goin Fishin....sounds good to me Gus...even if it is colder than hell. Fred A. I don`t think a "High Noon" scenario is really needed at the Pop-A-Top. Besides...Mark would throw all our butts out the door. That would be like Axel Rose getting thrown out of " Guns N Roses", gotta really screw up for that to happen. And of course.... I show a little more loyalty to the guys I actually served with in Nam, that`s because I knew them thirtysomething years ago, and the great qualities that made them special is still there. And that`s not discounting or selling short anyone that was in Nam before me or after. I hope you understand that. The French....Fred A, my wife works for a French oil company, and yes they do business in the middle-east. A war is gonna effect us big time. Her money puts food on the table and pays the bills. American companies are not gonna pay a woman the money that the French pay her. Plus the "glass ceiling" thing still goes on in american oil companies. "Good ole boys" don`t like a female engineers telling them what to do. Fred A...I depend on my wifes payday...my retirement don`t "kick in" until I`m 55. And everybody knows "public employees" don`t make big money. Fred A...I understand what you`re saying, when you say " you`d fight in Iraq"... you have a son. My father fought in WW2 and Korea, he gave the army 12 years of his life. But after I got home from Nam, he told me that he would have rather gone to Nam, than to see me have gone. Alcoholism killed my father before he was 60 years old, and everyone always said," It was the wars that killed him". Fred A., you don`t have a e-mail or a phone number for me to call. So I used this forum in which to address some things you said. And I will call you if I feel the need. Fred Alvis, I`m not being nasty or fronting you out in public, I just wanted you to know where I`m coming from when say certain things. Mark keeps this web-site open to us to say or express all our opinions. Alot of web-sites don`t do that. By the way, I got a bill today from the VA for $265, they based MY income on my wifes salary. As Billy Joel says, "So I write them a check and rub my neck"
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 21:20:03 (MST)

Freddie my friend, the wobblies were a radical union,International Workers of the World, formed back in the early nineteen hundreds. They based their beliefs in worker empowerment, as a mechanism for world government, through the writings of Karl Marx. They had some pretty violent strikes in everything from agriculture to mining. The Nevada miners strike is where the reference to Joe Hill comes from. He was killed by company goons while organizing a strike at a copper mine. Joan Baez sang about him at Woodstock. Woody Guthrie was an advocate of the IWW. Quite a few of his songs were based in the worker backlash to the robber barons. It's ironic that we have become anesthetized to the present day corporate raiders, to a point where most people think they can compete with corporate america all by themselves, with no help from labor organizations......As for other's opinions. I guess I don't really care what other's think, it's a semi free country, and all of us did our time to keep the right of freedom of speech intact. I haven't read a single thing on this site that's kept me awake all night worrying about whether or not my opinion is respected.I feel fortunate that I've never had to use the VA for anything other than my mortgage...Gently, if there were a few more civilian types like you in this country, maybe it would still be there for me if I do need it!!!! Sorry to know that our weather is down south, it kinda ruins the day dream of getting out of New England and enjoying spring training!
Kim LaVoie <kimlav@megalink.net>
Livermore, me USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 21:09:54 (MST)

I just thought I would stop in and read up on the postings. Now that I have I am just going back out to the fish house, drill a hole, light the fire and wait till spring. Would someone pass around the cheese and crackers. :-) Gus
Gus
Grand Rapids, MN USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 18:48:18 (MST)

hey gently, if u have a showdown at mid night at pop a top, may i suggest using my sks hanging from the cealing there.I zeroed it in myself.Shoots dead on up to 300 meters.I dont know if anyone has a problem with gently.but i have met her,conversed with her,and hoisted a few at kokomo with her and her hubby.I found her to be sweet and very intelligent,far more so than I expected.I, personally value her input and the shades of different reasoning she adds here.Knowing her level if integerty,I can accept anything she says as flat out truth.I dont type as well, nor organize my thoughts as well as many in here,but i do know good people when i meet them.i suggest some of u cool it.Perhaps its just wenter nerves,perhaps its us vets hearing the bugle blow and the flag going up, I dont know , but seems to me there is alot of unnecceresy friction going on in here.Remember, we are indeed bothers and sisters. and as far as gulf war vets being against the war, ah shit, i am not even going to go there. Someone in here just said something about snakes in the back yard.I liked that . Thinks it was right on the money.Would i go to irag? yes. Would i send my son there? I have one on an aircraft carrier now.The French>?They can stuff it.The germans? them to. I think we should pull every single service person out of europe now anyway,we have no biz there anymore..let europe take care of europe.The reds are gone.Hmmm, perhaps we are all having a little bit of cabin fever and i sorry if i have offended anyone.cause i dont mean to.spring is just around the corner
alvis
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 16:41:50 (MST)

A SIGN OF THE APOCALYPSE!!!!!!! Jerry Springer(Ohio Native and former Mayor of Cincinnati) is thinking of running for the senate in Ohio......I bet he carries the TRANSVESTITE vote. OR......he`ll write another check to a hooker......
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 16:05:38 (MST)

Ya, ya, ya, Fred. Who else has he challenged? Just forget it. G
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 11:50:21 (MST)

Gently...cool out...I didn`t see your posting until after I made mine. Fred Brown is a great person, he rarely makes a statement unless he has something to say. As Ted said," some statements can`t go unchallenged".
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 08:18:25 (MST)

DOWNTOWN FRED BROWN.....My Dude....On this web-site there`s only a 4 or 5 guys I actually spent time with in Nam. Snapper( Jeff Sauers), Cups( Jim Masencup), Ron DeBates, Matt Casey, And Fred(Charlie) Brown.....but it`s always a special pleasure to see Fred Brown post and get with it. Wish I could articlate as well as you Fred. Man.....it`s to much like winter down here in Carolina, schools are closed, the malls are closing at 5;00pm today!!!! Kim LaVoie...what`s a "wobblie" or do I have to guess? Yea...Dubya said we will have plenty of unilateral support for the Iraq war without the United Nations, every major oil company.... Brother Fred, I didn`t research that statement....it`s a joke
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 07:49:54 (MST)

DOWNTOWN FRED BROWN.....My Dude....On this web-site there`s only a 4 or 5 guys I actually spent time with in Nam. Snapper( Jeff Sauers), Cups( Jim Masencup
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 07:26:15 (MST)

Flight: Well Don't have much time to keep up with Boy George!! But, will agree that the news gives the public their oppinion of what is said. Just, like Vietnam and the Gulf War!!! Thoses of you that get to hear George's interviews and actual statements will know whats actual being said. As I said this more of a personal matter, at the cost of our military. And if we have to go in. Then let the military do the job that they we trained for. Ron Cooper, have fun in Memphis. One day need to go myself. Always had problems with my hearing. Doctors tell me I have broken ear drums. I know when I came back to the world in 68. The doctors told me my nerves were bad. Then, I find out it's blood pressure. Don't think the salt pills had anything to do with it. Hope you can make it to Atlanta in June. Alex
Alex <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, TN USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 07:18:43 (MST)

Fred Brown: I don't do 2PM bar room conversations, nor do I comment on issues without having a source to back me up. And that source is usually the VVA. Perhaps I'm mis-reading you, but I suggest a mid-night dual at the Pop-a-Top between you and I. The number I gave you several months ago regarding 25% of the MD's at the VA having criminal records was based on a newspaper article I read(and wish I had kept, for various reasons). I was unable to locate the article(I read so many from both positions on any issue I'm concerned with), but I did refer you to a web site(again, I visit too many websites to remember which one). I assumed you visited it. I don't feel I need to say more. And to Gale-I pray you are feeling better and getting some help with that back problem...and yes, you do owe nasty old me. Always there, and trying to help-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
A bad place., USA - Friday, January 24, 2003 at 07:16:27 (MST)

I guess it's not up to us regarding Iraq. I do wish this bunch of chickenhawks would take care of one problem before getting us into another one. Our soldiers may go into Iraq, but they're not al queda..does anybody remember that bunch of looneytunes??? I only hope georgie boy keeps his dumb ass out of the warmaking, and lets the generals do what must be done with out interference. That, along with an exit strategy, is about the best we can hope for. Which oil company wants their oil????? Fred, I know a couple wobblies, they're still around. Remember Joe Hill.
Kim La Voie <kimlav@megalink.net>
frostbite falls, USA - Thursday, January 23, 2003 at 20:12:35 (MST)

Ted, et al, I was watching the speech when he said it--he did say it a couple of times, and one of those times he specifically mentioned WMD and generals, but not the second, when he said "soldiers." Perhaps we were meant to interpret it that way (i.e., WMD use equals war crimes), and I suppose that's what he'll fall back on if push comes to shove. At any rate, re-reading my post, I suppose I sounded doveish, and nothing could be further from the truth; I have very mixed feelings, but, in this case, I like to use this analogy: if you have poisonous snakes in your backyard that are threatening your children, you kill the snakes; you don't wait for one to bite, then track them all down and do DNA tests to make sure you only punish the one that bit. BUT, I believed a lot of lies back in the early '60s, and trust my government about as far as I'd trust the above mentioned snakes, so I'm not really sure that the information on which I'm basing my opinions has any great validity.
Max Whittington <Max@oregonPI.com>
USA - Thursday, January 23, 2003 at 20:04:42 (MST)

Been a long time, lot of stuff going on heres my 3 cents worth. No war is a good war, I agree with some of the folks it sounds like Bush is making this personal at our expense. The VA tomarrow I head North to Memphis (watch out Alex) for my first visit to a VA hospital. I'll let ya'll know how it comes out. What can I say GO RAIDERS!!!! Back in The Sticks.
Ron Cooper
out in the sticks, MS USA - Thursday, January 23, 2003 at 19:52:04 (MST)

Ted, Your point of knowing facts before commenting is well taken (on any subject posted here). However, I watched "Dubya's" speech and he did say Generals and "soldiers". As for the VA issues, some time back I asked a submitter of this site for a source for some pretty damning comments posted here as fact, but nothing to support those comments was ever forthcoming. It would be helpful if everyone who uses this website to provide their sources of information. Without it, it's not much more than a 2AM baroom conversation. And we all know how constructive and productive they are.
Fred Brown <FJBuffalo@Yahoo.com>
USA - Thursday, January 23, 2003 at 16:15:25 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT... IF YOU ALL DONT MIND IF I PUT MY 2 CENTS IN ON WAR..I BELIVE THEY NEED TO GIVE THE UN MORE TIME.. I THINK BUSH WANTS WAR.. DONT MEAN TO OFEND ANY ONE..A BROTHER ALWAYS..RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Thursday, January 23, 2003 at 12:18:15 (MST)

I hate to get into politics, but I just CAN't let some of these things go unchallenged for fear everyone will take them as fact. In President Bush's speech he was referring to the commanders of units, or generals, not common soldiers. And only if they used weapons that were against the geneva convention or what are now referred to as "weapons of mass destruction". This would be an atrocity punishable under war crimes statutes. Just as it was done to Hitlers generals after WWII. Don't you think it is a good idea to make your adversary THINK about the consequences of his actions, especially before the battle? Actually pretty shrewd I'm thinking. I find you always need to listen to President Bush's speeches first hand, and not listen to what the media tells you he said. Most of the time the major network's synopsis of his speeches bear little resemblance to what was actually said. Even actual sound bites are used "out of context".
Ted Buisker <Skyking@stateline-isp.com>
Davis, IL. USA - Thursday, January 23, 2003 at 11:32:37 (MST)

Flight: As far as Boy George!! As it has been mentioned. Quite sometime back I was watching an interview. In the interview he mention that Saddam tried to get his Daddy!! And that he was going to get Saddam. Personally, I think this is more of a personal war with Saddam, at the expense of the USA!!! As far as the VA. well,I can't touch that subject!! The best way to playing grab bag. Just reach in and hope you don't get a booby prize!! Take Care Bro's!! Alex
Alex <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, TN USA - Thursday, January 23, 2003 at 08:04:25 (MST)

Alvis, did you ever get that snow shoveled?? Mugu Guyman
Gale
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 19:50:24 (MST)

Gently, I wonder....was I the only "idiot"??? I owe ya one! And I don't mean a beer!!! You have a real mean streak in you, huh? ;o) Gale
Gale
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 19:46:34 (MST)

you guys crack me up
alvis
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 19:46:14 (MST)

Gale, I`m still a "card carrying" member
Freddie
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 19:34:24 (MST)

http://www.vvaw.org/
Gale
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 19:24:49 (MST)

Flight....I`m finding the communique a little different, than a few months ago. Of course the VA will always be a issue with all of us. But the "change of heart" about the war in Iraq, I am honestly curious about the change. My comments about the draft were not a "right wing" comment. I just don`t think anyone of " privileged upbringing" or" gangster mentality" should be able to sit on the sidelines and watch this war on CNN and benefit from it afterwards. A few months ago we had a "heated debate" about the war and our leadership( Boy George). Only a couple of us had negative things to say about our Commander In Chief. What has brought on that change? I`m not taking a nasty tone, I`m honestly intrigued. Looks like, as some of us use to say in Nam, "The worm has turned".......Sincerely, Fred
Fred Skaggs
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 14:44:43 (MST)

Like many combat vets, I've had very mixed feelings about the upcoming war, but today in the President's speech I heard something about which I feel no ambivalence at all: that any Iraqi soldiers who fire on American troops will be considered "war criminals," and treated as such. That's possibly the most assinine statement I've ever heard come out of a U.S. President's mouth. First, it's totally unenforecable--can you imagine individual trials for all 500,000 or so Iraqi soldiers? Second, the President himself has a number of times made mention of the fact that Saddam threatens severe punishment on the families of soldiers who desert or refuse to fight--put in the same position, I'd fight for the Devil himself. Third, it has long been accepted by any civilized nation that the soldiers do not get to decide when and when not to fight--they follow orders. Finally, what applies to the Iraqis could legitimately be turned around and applied to our own troops by the Iraqis--and God help any U.S. servicemen they captured.
Max Whittington
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 13:24:20 (MST)

yesm duke is a nice hospital. To bad some vets wont get to use their V.A.health care system.
alvis
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 12:42:38 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT.... MARK AND DEED I THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SENDING THE PAPER,WITH LARRYS NAME ON IT.. YOUR RIGHT IT DID MAKE ME CRY.. I KEEP IT FOR EVER.. DEED IF THEY GAVE OUT METLAS.. YOU SHOULD HETTHE METAL OF HORNER FOR BEING A GRATE WIFE .. I GUESS ALL WIFES OF VETS SHOULD GET ONE..IAM SO PROUD TO HAVE KNOW LARRY MY PRAYES GO OUT TO YOUR FAMILY EVERY DAY .... THANKS AGAIN,, LOVE YA BOTH GOD BLESS YOU ALL.. FORGIVE IF WORDS DONT SOUND RIGHT OK.. BUT ALL FROM THE HEART A BROTHER TO YOU ALL ON HERE RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET , MD USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 11:17:28 (MST)

New site: www.veteransforcommonsense.org. Worth looking at my friends. This group was on television last week explaining themselves and their motives. Just stop in. Always there-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Reved, USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 11:02:32 (MST)

I went to the VA in Phoenix about three years ago to go through the Agent Orange screening and to add one more name to that database. A bit later, I had a disability review. Before I was allowed to have either exam, I was given a means test ø how much do you make, how much do you have in the bank, do you own a home, who are your relatives, my ability to pay, etc. I was told that the means test was standard practice so that veterans could be charged for treatment based on their ability to pay. I donÕt think the recent actions of The Honorable Anthony J. Principi, Secretary of Veterans Affairs, is anything new. And it still stinksÉÉÉÉÉÉÉÉ.. As far as the Gulf War Vets Against The War, not surprising. Most veterans with actual combat experience ø unlike our current Commander In Chief ø have second thoughts about committing another generation of our kids and their kids to another honorable, needed, necessary, got to do it now war.
Tom Shanahan
Phoenix, AZ USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 10:32:21 (MST)

I happened upon this site while following the links from another site. Thank your for the hard work you must have put in to create this wonderful facility. Keep
Jobs, Stefen
Europe - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 08:48:06 (MST)

Mark, I got the Mercer County Chronicle you sent me and You were right, i needed a crying towel. It was great to see Larry's name on the back of that seat. It's like a voice coming at you from the past, but more of a feeling you get. What a nice thing for your community and your wife to do. I know exactly how you feel, having lost my brother in a very similar way. I was thinking that i wish i had been there to see your face and to feel what was going on at that time, then I thought that I would have been crying like a baby, so it was probably good i wasn't there. I thank you so much for the paper and will keep it with all of the other info you have sent me over the years we have known each other. I think Mr. Knapp did a good job on the article. I can't wait to see the desk and run my fingers over Larry's name if you don't mind. Dee, you're a wonderful wife and sister-in-law, and sister to all of us. Thanks again for the article, and i'll see you both in Atlanta if you get to go. Robbie
Robbie
Rochester, NY USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 07:52:33 (MST)

Fred Alvis.....do I detect some sarcasm there.....but I`ve never been to Walter Reed Hospital. But I`m really impressed with the VA in Durham,N.C. It`s connected to Duke University Med School and Hospital. Duke is one of the best Med Schools in the country. Most of the doctor`s at the VA in Durham are Duke grads, well the ones I ask. On another note.....I noticed that the Gulf War Vets Against The War, are starting to get active. I find that quite interesting.
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, N.C. USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 07:41:16 (MST)

I personaly,am just so thankful tha congress them selves are not affected by this V.a. thing.They continue to use Walter Reed hospital,pehaps the one of the best hospitals in the nation,not to mention it also being a V.A. unit.Of course. they only make a hundred plus thousand per year and keep getting that even aftere they retire and acesses to v.a. is also theirs.Thank god they got theirs,I just know they are sleepless at night worring about us vets.
alvis
USA - Wednesday, January 22, 2003 at 06:55:01 (MST)

mugu.keep off
guyman <guyman@guyman.net>
lagos, lagos nigeria - Tuesday, January 21, 2003 at 21:16:48 (MST)

I agree with you Gently, my post was just to help clarify what was happening at the VA, from someone fairly close to the system. All veterans deserve health care, and this category system was put in place merely as a precaution against the times when dollars were not there. The VA budget is under what is called "discretionary spending" and is not manditorily funded like many social programs are. So it's up to congress to appropriate the money each year for the VA. Since it is "discretionary", it can be manipulated for political purposes as well as budget balancing. As for the Iraq war preparations, I'm thankful were are learning from history. Had we helped with Hitler in 1939, we may have prevented Pearl Harbor, but the sentiment was then as it is with many now, he can't hurt us, so why bother. Well, he can't hurt us YET, so lets use an ounce of prevention, and handle the Saddam situation NOW before he has nuclear capability. Korea is a whole other game, now we must try to UNDO previous policies that have enabled them to achieve covertly what they have.
Ted Buisker <Skyking@stateline-isp.com>
Davis, IL USA - Tuesday, January 21, 2003 at 16:15:29 (MST)

Yes, Gale and Rick, I agree. Additionally, our friends and family fighting in Iraq, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Africa, South America and any number of other places around the world, will be treated as poorly medically as you were when they return. You had to fight for Agent Orange benefits, the Gulf Veterans are now fighting and dying while they wait for yet more research to be done on their illnesses, and our present troops, especially in the Middle East, will have to wait for their research to be done on, God only knows what, when they get back, while they wait and die. And there will be even less money for their cures and care. Now with Level 8's out of the way, further budget cuts can be supported in the future by a proven decline in Veterans using the VA (lower numbers through the Level 8 disqualifications and our Veterans rapidly dying). Understand, we cannot be divided on this mandatory and unilateral action by Prinicpi-the promise was free medical care if you served, period, whether you are able to use medical services elsewhere or not! This is not about not having enough money, it's about the monies being spent elsewhere (like in the Middle East) and our Veterans not being a priority. We cannot go against one another(another Veteran on top of it!)on this: Divided we lose the little strength we have. Remember, free medical care if you served....period. There is no argument. And if a Veteran wants to go elsewhere, it should be his/her choice. If we give in on this act by Principi, and divide, based on our own opinions and arguments-we are done. So we have to put our personal feelings aside and remain united. Free medical care if you served, period. Do not look upon this as "a more financially secure Veteran using the small number of resources available," rather look upon it as his/her right, and fight for more money in the VA budget so that our "limited resources" are no longer "limited." I'm not spell checking, I'm to angry. Always there for our Veterans-Gently(but to gently today!)
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Tuesday, January 21, 2003 at 14:41:31 (MST)

damn snow
alvis
USA - Tuesday, January 21, 2003 at 13:13:40 (MST)

Just to warn all about entering your email address in any website guestbook. Do you get emails promising you of untold fortunes from wives/sons/accountants/lawyers of dead dictators from Nigeria/Ivory Coast/South Africa/Angola/Namibia and other countries? Here's how they get your email: These are 419 Scammers (in this case), MUGU GUYMEN or GUYMEN collect email addresses from guestbooks on websites. In every Guestbook that has had emails collected you will see a guestbook post from a 419 Scam Group. Entries from MUGUS or MUGU GUYMEN from Nigeria in a guest book indicate that all the e-mail addresses are now in the hands of 419 scammers from countries in West Africa. They're putting these warnings so that other 419 scammers would not harvest the e-mails here. PLEASE THINK TWICE BEFORE PUTTING IN YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS IN GUEST BOOKS. If you need to contact the owner(s) of a website, e-mail him/her/them directly. Go to the: Google Search Engine and do a search of GUYMEN NIGERIA. Try it and you will find out that they are all over guestbooks they stake their claim too. Beware of these scams, these MUGU's are the scum of the internet. Please go to http://www.fraudaid.com or http://www.scamorama.com for more information.
NOTICE POSTERS
USA - Monday, January 20, 2003 at 08:16:43 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT..GALE I COMPLETLY AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE GOVEMENT WILL TURN THERE BACKSON THEM TO..RICK HOPE YPU FEEL BETTER GET WELL BROTHER..YOU ALL TAKE CARE A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Sunday, January 19, 2003 at 17:49:38 (MST)

Rick, sorry to hear that you're under the weather Buddy. You take care of yourself.....you promised to come and visit me this year. Flight, lots of talk about war........I have mixed emotions on the subject.I can understand the troops being "gung ho" and I can remember being gung ho back in 67 along with a whole lot of others. Thing of it was, we had to check the globe....we didn't even know where VietNam was!!!! I sit and think.... ( sippin on some JP/4).....in 67 the brass told us that we will be going to VietNam to fight the commies & aggression and if we didn't we would be fighting it in our back yards! We went, we fought and some of us came back. We came back individually with no one to lean on or understand us. The Government that forced the propaganda down our throats turned their back on us as did the public.........and guess what folks???.......35 years later we are fighting aggression in our back yards after all. I'm sure that they won't treat all of these new Vets any differently ( the public may, but, not the Government). I wish that "Boy George" would funnel all of that force and expense into our Homeland Defense. Root out the terrorists in our country and protect our borders. Then!! Then if he thinks Saddam is a threat (other than "he tried to kill my Daddy" ) use all of our technology and expert combat "teams" to track him down and get rid of him. Oh well, just blabbin' Clear left Brothers, Gale 67-68
Gale <beardatpaige1@cs.com>
USA - Sunday, January 19, 2003 at 13:28:27 (MST)

hey Rick. Hope all goes well buddy.You take care of yourself,as i would like to share a few laughs again with you at the next reunion.last one, u kept everyone laughing.hey, u did get the pics i sent you of kokomo,didnt you?Well. got to go and shovel the snow off the side walk again. All take care.
fred alvis
indy, USA - Sunday, January 19, 2003 at 06:43:37 (MST)

Larry I seen it an recomend it. I have a tee shirt with the shadow of the blade on it. Do you know Keith that was the CE on that ship? Intresting Tins on hinm and that ship. TINS ( This is no shit ). I am still trying to recover. the VA say I have copd now. Going to lay down. Be careful out there.
Rick England
USA - Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 15:14:23 (MST)

A few years back, the VA was told to set up a priority system to deliver health care to the "most deserving" veterans. They set up a system that places Veterans in one of seven categories, based on type of disability (service connected-non service connected), percentage, ability to pay, number of dependents, and some other criteria. This was done so as to be able to best utilize a possiblity of limited resources in the future. The future is NOW! Up until now the VA has served all categories. The only ones who will be denied heath services are those who are making over $35,000 a year with NO dependents, and that have a form of outside health insurance, and are being treated for a NON -service connected medical conditions. These are called category 8 veterans. As more and more veterans enter the VA health care sytem, 1996 2.8 million, 2000 over 6 million, this has become necessary to best utilize limited resources. Hopefully the need will be seen and the VA will be fully funded next fiscal year. You can help by writing your congressman and tell him you support fully funding the VA health care system.
Ted Buisker <Skyking@stateline-isp.com>
Davis, IL USA - Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 09:26:52 (MST)

correction on source..wasnt abc news..was nbc, evening news,friday, jan 17th.03 last man club cant be a beer or anything else that has a short self life..smile, i hope anyway.Beer only has shelf life of..i believe 4 months.Hope all u rascals are around for a lot longer than that.
alvis
USA - Saturday, January 18, 2003 at 07:21:15 (MST)

chuckles with my friend gale
alvis
USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 21:01:22 (MST)

Fellas, I recall someone in a "campaign promise" called veterans "a national treasure". So much for that......Brothers I can`t drink no more because of my meds(vioxx), but I`ll sure take another..........I`ll leave that thought for your all imaginations. Don`t worry I don`t support terrorist, everything is homegrown in Kentucky or Meigs county,Ohio.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 20:36:06 (MST)

THAT LAST DRINK,,,WELL WOULDN'T THAT HAVE TO BE A LITE,,,,MAKE MINE A NATURAL,,,,SNOW,,THE LOCALS HERE GO BONKERS IF IT GETS BELOW 30,,I GUESS SINCE THE POP A TOP IS KINDA OF SORTA HOME, I GOT SOMETHING RELATING TO THE HUEY THAT I PLAN ON GIVING TO MARK IN ALANTA,,,I KNOW EVERYONE IS GOING TO WELL LIKE IT ANYWAY....BE SAFE STAY WARM JIM
JIM OLIVER <OLIVER_31683@HOTMAIL.COM>
PEMBROKE, GA USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 19:49:40 (MST)

Alvis, good idea, but, would it have to be a Bud? ;o) Gale
Gale
USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 18:32:25 (MST)

well boys, the shoe finaly dropped. V,A. has just anounced that if u make more than 35 thou a year, and if u arent signed up up...to bad, you wont be able to use va hospt. this year.my source? abc evening news.i sure would like to stick a stick in someones eye. What blaent betrayal.What a slap in the face.No, i make under 35, so i am safe this yearbut others arentand i stand at their side as they have stood by mine.Hmm. i had docs apointments at va this past week.They made noises aboutfollow what we say or dont come back.We need to start a 129th assoc. to speak with one voice.we need one anyway,for many things. Also, one more question. I want to start a last man club,the bottle being held at "pop a top".last man alive gets to toast the rest.ideas? suggestions? i also think that if gently and elib. are still kicking, they should share that bottle and the toast.Waht you say guys?I would be more than happy to take something up there but better idea is to buy one in hotlanta,with us all kicking in spare change and let mark take it back.Damn, we need a roster of names too. why does everything have to be so compicated.perhaps its a poor idea, i have many of them.I would kinda like to buy the last guy alive a drink .....
alvis
USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 17:19:51 (MST)

Hi Flight!!!!!!!!!!! In case you just tuned in or don't feel like reading back too far, go to the website I list here. It's a movie called "Shadow of the Blade". It's new and kinda ties in with some of what has been discussed here in regards to getting our mitts on a Huey. They restored one Tail #502. There's other things too. It comes highly recommended (by me). The site was sent to me by a friend who was a CE in another unit. (Brand X) If you have a problem getting in, let me know and I'll try and send a hyperlink or something. http://www.intheshadowoftheblade.com/shadow.nsf/html/MovieClips
Larry Kwiatkowski (Scooter) <Chrger66@aol.com>
Simi Valley, CA USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 17:08:14 (MST)

Flight: Well alot of commo out there!! Everything from the VA to the weather. Of coarse here in Memphis we usually miss all the snow and ice. Did get nailed in 94 with a ice storm, was with out power for a few days. Never been to the VA. But, I think it's whom you have in your corner that helps you. Some have more compassion then others when it comes to helping the Veterans!! Ron Paye like your way thinking. I have never worried about others thought of me. It was what I thought of myself. And your right when it comes to the BROTHERHOOD!! Something that only people like us can share in. Ray send me a copy of your DD 214 so I can get you a VHCMA membership. Fred S. hope you make it to Atlanta. Take Care Brothers and Sisters. Alex
Alex Fernwalt <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, TN USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 09:55:20 (MST)

Kim LaVoie, Yea, "the locals" really "freak out" when it snows down here in North Carolina. The mountains to the west usually blocks the snow coming east, so when they get it,they go nuts. Taxes.....don`t talk taxes to Kim(wife) and I, we figured out that Boy Georgie`s tax break for us would be $381. Right before Xmas the IRS hit us with a $3900 tax bill, Ernst&Young didn`t do us any favors. Every time I take some money out of my "defered comp" account, the IRS hits me at about 28% rate.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 08:42:06 (MST)

Flight, I was talking with a person who told me that the Maine Army National Guard has a few Hueys that they'd give away for static display purposes. The things are junk to them, and it's too much hassle to ship them to a boneyard. I don't know the REST OF THE STORY, but, if they've got em here, maybe they've got em there??? Just a thought......Snow, is that something to get excited about???? We're in the middle of our annual week in the deep freeze, no wind, so it's not too bad......It's ironic that we keep electing people who tell us they're going to cut taxes, then complain when services get cut. We like to say that freedom isn't free...do we think government programs are????? Everett Dirkson used to say, " don't tax you, don't tax me, tax the fellow behind the tree"! I don't mind paying, I'd just like to feel that everyone is sharing the burden
Kim La Voie <kimlav@megalink.net>
Livermore, Me USA - Friday, January 17, 2003 at 07:30:15 (MST)

well here it is. the web page URL is linked to my name below or you can copy and paste http://donald_6.tripod.com/niteb4xmas.htm I re wrote the poem as closely as I could to the origonal. sorry I didn't find it till after Christmas. Later Don
Don Miller <hogleg244@yahoo.com>
Valley Farms, AZ USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 22:09:01 (MST)

When I was young I worried a lot about what other people thought about me. Now it doesn't bother me as much. I read one time "What one man knows about himself, far outweighs what a thousand others may think." My feelings now. Don't really give a damn what the rich think of me or my service. I am one PROUD VET. Any one that don't like that can Kiss My Butt. They have no idea what "Love and Brotherhood" means. Big loss to them. Ron Paye
Ron Paye <ronpaye@comcast.net>
Indy, IN USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 20:58:28 (MST)

Jeff....just log on to make a comment about the snow in Carolina. They are calling off 3rd shift`s here. And already putting the work delay of 2 or 3 hrs for Friday. It`s stopped here, kinda raining and little sleet, but that`s it, maybe a inch. Great book just out...Dave Powers told me about it or he sent me some excerpts of it. Guy name Shaffer wrote a book called "Keeping The Faith". He`s a Ivy Leaguer(Harvard Grad), but the book is about his experience of his son going into the Marines after high school. Shaffer was on CNN today telling about the book. But the father`s upper class friends, had the impression that his son had some sort of shortcomings or the family had some sort of money problems or something worse. Basically he writes how the wealthy and upper class view someone that serves their country, a lower class of person. He`s written the book to show how he changed his "own" mind about serving ones country. I always use to get that feeling....that because I had been a soldier....that wealther guys I grew up with, or was acquainted with, that I was "less than zero". I had to be dumb or lower class because I was a Patriot. But the wealthy and the privileged I think really does feel that way. I`m going to get the book and read more....But you can`t be dumb and work on or fly a helicopter. As Red Foxx use to say," I didn`t get this old, by being dumb".
Freddie Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 20:31:34 (MST)

I just caught up with the log. Gale, I agree with Jim about the PTSD program and the patient advocate at your VA hospital. I also think you may help yourself by contacting any of the VSO legal arms. I know the DAV has a very good one and have helped many who were getting screwed by the VA. As a VA RN, and I'm sure Jim will agree, our first and foremost job is to be an advocate for our pts. That is why we do not work for the MDs but for Nursing Service. We have been known to pass a congressman's phone number to more than one patient. We, as vets, must continue to be a large pain in the ass for the politicians who have control over the VA budget. It seems that each year there are fewer and fewer dollars to run our programs. Just DON'T GIVE UP! If there is any help I can give you let me know. And Gently, I never for a second thought you were calling Jim and I AHs. I may have used that term a few times myself when dealing with the VA as a disabled vet or for that matter as an employee. Take care everyone! PS: Freddie is it snowing over there? It is here and all the "natives" have been going nuts.
Jeff Sauers, RN BSN
USA - Thursday, January 16, 2003 at 19:10:00 (MST)

Hello flight, I know it is a little late but I was going thru some papers and I just found "The Night Before Christmas " circa 1969. I am going to re type it and and put it on a web page so you can copy and paste it. or you can send me an E-mail and I will send it to you. which ever way is easiest for you. I remember someone asking about it before Christmas but I couldn't find my copy. I will post the web page when I get it posted. Later, Don
Don Miller <hogleg244@yahoo.com>
Valley Farms, AZ USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003 at 21:45:24 (MST)

Fred Alvis, thanks for the offer buddy....I'll keep that in mind. Gale
Gale
USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003 at 18:23:00 (MST)

I had some catching up to do on the flight log this morning. I agree with Fred Skaggs about grabbing all the 18 year olds that think the country owes them something and see how well they react to bullets buzzing around their heads. I think it would have the same effect on them as it did us. You grow up fast or you die. I also was an RA with the draft sending me a notice every time i quit school. My cousin and I decided we would rather be flying around over there than walking through what might be on the ground. How sound a reasoning that was, i wasn't sure at the time, but I made it home and was damn glad. I feel for the pilots that let go on the Canadians. I watched that video a few times now and i'm sure it has been edited but couldn't see why they thought that they were a threat to them. But not being there at the time, i can't say that i would have done different if i were them. I can't imagine how those canadians' families must feel though. Ray Gagner good to hear from you. I'm still not sure when i'll be coming down through your neck of the woods. I need to get back with Bud Rainey and find out the particulars. I'm thinking i'm going to throw the Bike in the back of the truck and drive to my Brothers house in VIrginia and then ride down from there. We usually golf when i'm down there and it's damn hard to bring the clubs on a Naked Street bike. I'm thinking i'll leave sometime around the 14th of June. I'll keep you informed as time gets closer. Hope everyone else is doing well. Rick, never mind about getting back to me, it's no big deal. We'll talk in Hotlanta fif you go. Well, that's my 2 cents for today. Rob
Robbie
Rochester, NY USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003 at 16:46:46 (MST)

hmm, i wonder about the pilots statements that they " thought they were taking fire" Does one really think ground forces would shoot up into the air at aircraft,espically when we (allies) are the only ones up there?I dont think so.Now , that being said, i have seen 50 cal rounds bouncing up and barley missing incoming waves of slicks.The command did go out for all 50 cals to cease firing.Is this what they saw?Once, we cought a rat in the slick reventments,wired it down to a smoke,thru it out at 3000 feet,and circled ,trying to shoot the gernade with a grunt 60.A "push pull" ( wonder aircraft that never ceased to amaze me) arty spotter saw us and flew over seeing what was going on. Gabby, the pilot, started yelling for me to cease fire as my tracers where headed right at him. Had i not ran out of belted ammo....shrug, who knows.Things do happen by sheer bad luck.Like most in here, i need to hear both sides, as i cannot believe they simply dropped bombs on figures running around on the ground.Things of this nature has happened in every single conflict we have had the misfortune of being involed in.personally, i think having to live ith ones self after that happened is hell enough.I sure hop something was bouncing up,if nothing else, to sooth troubled hearts and minds.besides, no one ever raised hell when our own people shot and killed our people.Is this pehaps part of it? politics all over again?
alvis
USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003 at 12:11:25 (MST)

Sorry Fred fro not being there I have been off the puter for coulpe days still sick. The draft should start an get those that skipped on RVN should be the next shit burners. We need to watch out for the North Korea an have a big one ready to put up their ass.We need to watch our backs over there. I was RA but I got my draft notice when I was in the 129th. My Dad had to call them an said your're to late. I will hopefully have pins ready by reunion. It takes awhile. Flight be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Wednesday, January 15, 2003 at 09:40:40 (MST)

Bro Max, you`re the real deal.....While living in Holland and hangin out in a pub,I had a Jamaican fella ask me if I was English. I said no, I speak it!!!! And the arguement was on, about how he as a Jamaican, spoke more correct English than Americans, because he spoke "The King`s English".
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 21:49:31 (MST)

Marky Mark...you got me on that one I have no idea. Kim L. you hit it on the head. But a honest politician, you got to be kidding. I don`t think Boy George is gonna find a "smoking gun", not at this point. And this economy is sure gonna put a hurt on his style.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 21:30:13 (MST)

Mark: The worldwide traditional interpretation of flag colors are: BLUE = justice; piety; sincerity / BLACK = grief; sorrow / GREEN = hope / ORANGE = strength; endurance / PURPLE = high rank; royalty / RED = courage; valor; sacrifice / SILVER or WHITE = faith; purity. The thirteen stripes on our flag represent the first thirteen colonies, which became the first thirteen states. To add to your "glossary of patriotic information," all acronyms in the English language--NATO, UN, NORAD, AHC, etc.--are generally used without full-stops (periods); however, in the United States we use U.S., which the British think is a "chauvinistic" misuse of *their* language.
Max Whittington
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 21:11:40 (MST)

..OK...OK, Freddie Boy.......good nuff reason for not comin' to Coldwater.........better be safe then sorry.....Miss Ya brother.....you and Kim.........Question?????.......I know that the RED in the Flag stands For the Blood shead......please excuse my ignorance....but what is the White and Blue for?????????.......so dumb of me not to recall this..........damb.....I can be so brainless at times!!!!...always a brother.. Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 20:49:14 (MST)

Most of you know my feelings about boy georgie. His side kick's comments about the draftees who served only reinforces that opinion! He should be smart enough to know that North Korea will use any opportunity to make some mischief, just because they can. It's also a chance to see just how focused this country is, they never did sign a peace treaty, remember? It's too bad that we haven't got the organization to force changes to the va system. That's something that crosses political boundaries..regardless of political affiliation, we get shafted. it brings to mind the old anti war saying...what if they gave a war, and nobody came??? Why would anyone wnat to be part of a process that gives out platitudes, instead of standing behind the praise that the vote mongers like to throw around when they're looking to get elected. There must be a couple honorable politicians in this country, people who stand behind their word, are interested in doing the peoples business instead of padding their own pockets.....man, am I naive or what!!!!!!
Kim La Voie <kimlav@megalink.net>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 20:11:22 (MST)

Mark....the reason we didn`t come over to Coldwater was 10 inches of snow on US 30, comin across to I-75. And those State snowplow guys wasn`t comin out on Xmas eve or Xmas. When we got back to Columbus, there wasn`t a inch on the ground. But a good snow "up north" in the snow belt. That`s "flat land" driving couldn`t hardly tell where the road ended and where the "corn fields" started. Plus US 30 is full of nasty curves.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 19:36:52 (MST)

.....freddie Boy.....dont know the whole set rep on the pilots and such...........and as far as what I made at the Pop-A-Top last year and anywhere......I made a whole hell of a lot of new brothers and sisters here at the 129th sight......I am thankful for that.....screw the cons......one Vet in the joint that yells me thanks for caring, is a million peasters to me.....I love you all.....always a brother.....mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 19:33:47 (MST)

...Freddie Boy.........I know man.............just mixed up today........did six figures at the bar this year and did not make a dime...........war on my mind.......you and all the others on my mind.......Larry on my mind.....................just talkin', thats all.....love ya brother........how come ya didnt come and see us when you was in Ohio????..mad at you about that;-)))).........Just want peace in the world......I know.....tuff request.........but am sure the Big Guy well see to it......Love ya all..... always a brother............Markie Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 19:06:16 (MST)

Mark, on these Pilots that blew up the Canadains, they could end up being "scapegoats". Plus the rumor is they were taking "speed tablets", but were told to.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 18:57:41 (MST)

Marky Mark, it`s just that we are going to be fighting on three fronts, if the diplomacy don`t work. And we are 2.4 million troops below what we were in Nam. Nuking is not the answer, that would be ecological disaster for planet earth. 3 million North Koreans coming across the DMZ against 40,000 Americans is only going to be a "trip wire". Osama is still out there somewhere, ane Afgan Warlords are starting to "want their piece of the pie". And this war is not gonna be a "money maker" like Nam. It`s gonna be 5 or 6 dollars a gallon of gas.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 18:51:02 (MST)

Scooter, I went to the site and it was great. thank you for posting the URL. It made me do a little thinking about my time there and how I react when a Huey flies over even now. all the units around here ( national Guard ) have gone to Apache or Blackhawk birds so we don't have to many Hueys fly over any more. but I think I hear one further away than my dog can hear it. and my hearing ain't what it used to be. .... Later, Don
Don Miller <hogleg244@yahoo.com>
Valley Farms, AZ USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 18:38:52 (MST)

.....Evenin' Flight...........sure is a lot of commo goin' on in here.......nice to see that......sure wish there was more that I could do to help you Vets with all the VA fences and stuff.........Jim W...........sure hope that none of us made you feel like you were a VA AH.....am sure it was not directed at you personaly...........am sure that you are one that does the best you can for the Vets..........been lots of snow comin' down in Ohio. Still cold here also.........got the new "257" Softail sittin' at the Harley shop....waitin' ona few other extras that we odered for it......hope I can find the money to pick it up.......waitin' on the weather to brak also.....dont wanna ride her home in the snow and salt on the roads...............wish there was more that I could do to help you Vets that need support and help from the Gov.!!!!!!!!!!!............lots of talk at the Pop-A-Top about the up comin' war...........hate to see anonther brother lose a brother, but, something has to be done with those people over there..........At Pearl Harbor, we lost 2,882 personal......last count I saw in the World Trade Centers, not only US, but I believe that there were folks from 26 other nations that perished there, and a total of over 3,600........it took one day to declare war on Japan after Pearl Habor........whats the diffrence??????................from the looks of it all.....soon we will have 250,000 troops over there..........maybe I am wrong..........but I support what we are doin'.........that flag that came home draped across Larry's casket is the same flag that we have today..............I'm sorry and hope that I do not offend any one...........but I believe in that flag.......................I hope that none of us here loose a brother, son, father, mom, uncle , aunt, sister, cusin, or any relation that we have.........but when you put your left hand on the Bible and raise the right hand and swear to serve and protect........thats that.................................on another subject that may stur more schtuff.....what do you guys think of these pilots that are in troble for mistakingly takin' out those canadians...............to be honest with you all.......I dont know what to think any more about just about anything.....there is always two sides to all....and I am a very opened minded man........just seems that some things get so mixed up in it all!!!!!!!..............................I know one thing........I still curl my bill on my ball cap, my pants still hang from my hips, I dont were a sock on my head, and the only Hip Hop I know is the one I use to do when I played Hop Scotch!!!!!!!!!...and I am the dambnist , proudist brother of my brother, and all of you, for waht you did for me, that you will ever know.......ya wanna see bad in action..........come see the Action Jackson at work at the Pop-A-Top................I love you guys and God willin', Dee and I will be in Hot Lanta for the gig there in June...........sorry to all the new guys for not gettin' back to you, or gittin' your names posted in the CONTACTS section.......will try and get that all done soon, but do stay in touch in the Flight LOg Book.............ALWAYS,ALWAYS a brother to you all............Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 17:55:48 (MST)

HELLO FRED,,ONCE A GAIN I MUST AGREE WITH YOU.... YOU ARE S RIGHT....I ALSO THOMK SEND ALL DEATH ROW IN MATES AND THE ONES FOR MURDER..IF THEY PROVE TO BE GOLD SOLIDERS.. PYT THEM ON PROLE EVERONE GOSE TAKE CARE FRED.. AND ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS,,RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 16:53:46 (MST)

Jim, Ya musta done something wrong on the copy and paste.. I just tried it and it worked fine. If anyone is still having a problem, let me know and I'll try to forward the hyperlink to your e-mail. Scooter.
Larry Kwiatkowski <chrger66@aol.com>
Simi Valley , CA USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 16:23:04 (MST)

RicK England....You got to be my witness on this, what did I say about the draft....being it back. Let me get a little red here....grab up some of these little bad-ass "street gang boys" white , black, hispanic doesn`t matter. They love to shoot weapons....see how they react in a combat situation..... And let`s grab a few female draftees, like Bush`s cute little daughters or his junkie niece..... grab up a couple of Rumfseld`s grandson`s. Israel drafts everybody. This time NO DEFERMENTS.......everybody goes. You guys are gonna hate me now, but it`s only fair. Let`s not forget that a big part of the 129th was RA`s.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 15:51:30 (MST)

Flight, just got this from the VVA. Vietnam Veterans of America - January 14, 2003 (press release provided courtesy of UPI) Veterans decry Rumsfeld's draft comments By Pamela Hess UPI Pentagon Correspondent From the International Desk Published 1/10/2003 WASHINGTON, Jan. 10 (UPI) -- A Vietnam War veterans' group is taking exception to U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's comments this week on the possibility of a new draft. "Secretary Rumsfeld said troops from Vietnam War conscription 'added no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services ... '" Bobby Muller, president of Vietnam Veterans of America Foundation said in a statement issued Friday. "As Vietnam veterans who served with conscripted soldiers, we find Secretary Rumsfeld's egregious slur a grave insult to the memory, sacrifice and valor of those who lost their lives, and, further, dismissive of the hundreds and thousands of lives, both in the U.S. and in Vietnam, who were devastatingly shattered by the Vietnam War." Rumsfeld, while commenting on a bill introduced to initiate the draft, said it was unnecessary. "We're not going to re-implement a draft," he said Tuesday. "There is no need for it at all." He spoke of the fact that many of those who were drafted were trained, served for a short time and then left the service. Rumsfeld first referred to the many exemptions issued to certain men in the draft and then said, "what was left was sucked into the intake, trained for a period of months, and then went out, adding no value, no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, because the churning that took place, it took enormous amount of effort in terms of training, and then they were gone." Critics said Rumsfeld's comments were unconscionable. "To me if you look at the whole quote it's even worse," said John Terzano, vice president of the Vietnam Veteran of American Foundation, which shared a Nobel Prize in 1997 for its work helping landmine victims. "He's sitting there saying draftees add no value to the military and that's unconscionable ... Draftees stayed in as long they needed to be in the service -- they stayed in. "How can he sit there and say they added no value to the army?" He said Rumsfeld should have been "a little bit more careful with his wording and not be so glib." An official at the organization said the base concern was the "cavalierness of the way (Rumsfeld) said it." Rumsfeld declared unequivocally Tuesday there would be no resumption of the draft as he and his military leaders all believe a volunteer force was more efficient and effective. Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y., a Korean War veteran and a strong critic of going to war with Iraq, introduced a bill to initiate a draft because he believes the burden of military service is borne disproportionately by minorities. Rangel also believes if there were a universal draft, Congress and the public would have less of an appetite for war as it would mean endangering their own children's lives. Minorities compose more than a third of the military, though they make up only about one-quarter of the American populace. "I don't find that a compelling argument to spend all the money you would spend in churning people through and all the disadvantages that would accrue to bringing people into the service who didn't want to serve in the service," Rumsfeld said Tuesday.
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Plenty angry now., USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 14:48:09 (MST)

First of all, Thank you all for your support. I miss you too Fred Alvis! AS for the shadow of the blade, I tried to get in by copy/paste & it wouldn't let me. Must be doing something wrong. If someone has a hyperlink, please send it. Ray Gagner, Hang in there pal, I don't know if going to Alaska will do you any good but it sounds like you could use some help. Have you been in the hospital much, Like to a PTSD Program, Sometimes that is the way to get something done. I am not sure exactly where you live but they have a program at Tomah wisconsin, Topeka, Kansas, Palo Alto, Calif., American Lake Washington & others. Go to the VA, Tell The Patient Rep you are not getting the help you need & that you need to get into one of these programs, It may take awhile, but it could well be worth doing. Later all, Jim
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
Sheridan, wy USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 14:35:59 (MST)

HELLO FLIHGT.....IFI STARTED THIS MESS IAM SO SORRY I WAS TALKING ABOUY THE DRS HERE ALVIS..OR GALE OR JIM PLEASE CALL OF LET ME CALL U OK...410 536 3319 CALL AFTER 730 ESTIME... THANKS OR E MAIL ME...RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET , MD USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 14:20:13 (MST)

i HATE TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT WHEN THINGS ARE ON A ROLL BUT DID ANYONE HAPPEN TO GO TO THAT WEBSITE i POSTED ABOUT THE uNDER THE SHADOW OF THE BLADE"? I found it to be a very moving film and one I hadn't seen before. I'm interested in other peoples opinion of it. Larry.
Larry Kwiatkowski <chrger66@aol.com>
Simi Valleyca, USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 13:36:37 (MST)

Gale, did I stir this up or did you? :>) Glad to see the varied experiences. Jim W., we love you, and you are by no means anything other than an angel in our VA's. Alvis, you are fortunate in your experiences. And as Jim said "join a VSO, any of them." We are losing benefits due to budget cuts..causing understaffing. Oh forget it, I'm tired. L-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 12:48:53 (MST)

HI ALVIS ...IF I SAID JIM WASA ASSHOLE I NEVER MENT TO AT TIMES WORDS DONT COME OUT RIGHT.. THIS IS THE LAST PLACE I WANT TO LEAVE I GUESS I SAY THINGS WRONG,,JUST A HARD TIMES SYING WHAT I WANT TO..AS YOUALL SE ISEEM MIXED UP SORRY MY BROTHERS..I WILL ALWAYS BE A FAITHFUL BROTHER TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS.. I LOOKED FOR YOUR NO TO CALL TO AND WROTE JIM TO I NEVER TRY TO OFEND ANYONE THANKS....RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILLWATING@AOL,COM>
STREET , MD USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 11:21:36 (MST)

HELLO .. ALVIS.. I GUESS I DONT MEAN ALLBUT ONES IHAVE SEEM NOT TO CARE LIKE THE NERO SHRINK TELLING ME TO GO TO ALASKA AND MED DR I TOLD HIM I DINT HEARWELL HE SAID WELL YOU HEAR ME NOW I SAID SURE WE AREIN A LOCKED ROOM NO OUT SIDE NOISE ..MAY BE I BEABLE TOTALK TO JIM I GUESS IAM SORRY FOR SAYING ALL..TAKE CARE BROTHER AND THANKS I HANG IN THERE FOR SURE THANKS FOR TALKING TO ME A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET , MD USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 10:27:27 (MST)

hang in there ray granger. We are still pulling for you buddy. Knowing Jim Westwang on a personal level, having flown with him, partied with him, bidding him farewell for R&R,going hot with him on C.A.'sand beinh his partner in many a hotly contested games of spades,I doubt anyone would call that man an asshole.In all my vists to V.a. hospitals, i havent met one person, below rank of doctor,who didnt give his or her all to the care and well being of vets.I have seen them yelled at, called names, cussed,and they continued to solider on.Tiss not there fault for long waits or poor response from the docs.I have a damn good doc right now, and i hope i get to keep him.Its the damn bean counters i have the problem with.They must be the same people that control social security.Who ever said they now think we are just after a check, is right. We have to prove each and every time that we are indeed sick or ailing.I have a huge beard and look like a druggie or biker.once the ask me if i was homless.It seems we have all been put in a nich. Shit, i dont know where i am going with this,sorry guys.As i said b4, this subject just pisses the hell out of me.
alvis
USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 10:14:05 (MST)

HELLO ROB...JUST SAYING HELLO,AND SEE HOW YOU ARE DOING.WHEN ARE YOU LEAVING TO NC,,WE ARE LEAVING ON WEND AM..BUT IF YOU LEAVE EARLY YOU AND WHO EVER GOSE WITH YOU ARE WELCOME TO REST HERE,,AND THIS GOSE FOR ALL OF MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS..ANY TIME YOU CAN STAY...ROB HOW ARE THINGS IN NY ANY SNOW,,, WELL TAKE CARE BROTHER SEE YA SOON..A BROTHER ALWAYS,, IF ANY ONE WANT TO REST HERE JUST CALL OK 410 836 3319 MY HOME ISOPEN TO YOU ALL BE SAFE RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 07:51:03 (MST)

HELLO TO ALL MY BROTHERS...FRED ITIS SO TRUE WHAT YA SAID .THEY JUST DONT KNOW OR CARE ABOUT ANY ONE OF US WE ARE JUST PASSING TRHEW FOR THEM TO GET A CHECK,,,BUT IAM GOING TO FIGHT TILL I DIE..IF I DONT GET OH WELL IAM NOT LOOKING FOR A FREE RIDE.WE SEE WHAT HAPPENS TOMORROW I SEE 3 DIFFRENT DRS TOMORROW...TAKE CARE BROTHERS AND SISTERS..A BROTHER ALWAYS
RAY GAGNER <STILWAITNG@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Tuesday, January 14, 2003 at 06:36:47 (MST)

AND THE HITS KEEP ON COMIN.......when us "youngblood radicals" was talkin "revolution"!!!! this was the very reason we talked that crazy stuff. When we had the numbers and the voices and the attitude. We could have moved mountains back then. I doubt any "reserves' would have pulled a "Kent State" on our butts. The police at that time...we had them intimidated. But we went home....more worried about wives, kids, havin a job, and livin that "american dream". NOW!!!!! over 70% of our congressmen and senators never served a day in the military. Why should they care about us...they got theirs. To them , we`re just a bunch of "old men" and "has beens". We are a "throw away generation". So now we just live our lives the best we can.......
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 13, 2003 at 21:54:39 (MST)

My own experinces with the V.A.: Back in the mid-70s, I happened to sit down in a bar next to a guy who turned out to be the Chief Resident of the Portland, Oregon, VA Hospital. When I told him some horror-stories about my experiences at the hospital, he laughed and said, "We automatically assume that any Viet Nam vet who comes in without a leg or arm missing is an addict, looking to get free drugs." When I recently related the incident to a surgeon at the VA, he also laughed and said, "We *now* assume any Viet Nam vet who comes in is looking for a 'free ride' with a PTSD claim." Three months ago, after waiting six hours for surgery to remove a possibly cancerous tumor from my nasal passage -- six hours without food, drink, coffee, or (God forbid!) cigarettes, I made the pre-op nurse check to see how much longer it would be (I was only supposed to be in pre-op for a maximum of 1 1/2 hours); when she came back and said it would be at least another 1 1/2 hours, I made her take out the i.v. and give me my clothes. After a few choice words, I left, "AMA" (Against Medical Advice). I got rescheduled for a month later, and that time I was treated great. Go figure...
Max Whittington <Max@OregonPI.com>
USA - Monday, January 13, 2003 at 18:59:42 (MST)

Brothers & Sisters, Thanks for all of the advice. Instead of beating my head against the wall, I thought I'd throw it on our site to see if anyone had any answers....I hope I didn't get anyone too upset. Does anyone know if the Medics at Dong Ba Tin were actually with the 129th? I'm pretty sure that the Medics last name was Torres (nice looking guy with a thin mustache), but, I'm not sure if he forwarded to Qui Nhon from there. Thanks again, Gale
Gale <beardatpaige1@cs.com>
Clinton, In US of A - Monday, January 13, 2003 at 18:35:18 (MST)

Don't worry Ray my shrink doesn't even want to see me canceled my last three apointments. I like the way you put Fred civilized evil. .
Rick England
USA - Monday, January 13, 2003 at 10:27:54 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT... I SURE KNOW HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT A RUN AROUND THATS ALL I GET FROM THEM.. THE ONLY ONE WHO REALY CARES IS THE SHRINK ANT HIS HELPER THE WHO I TALK TO,, I HAD A NERO SHRINK TELL ME ITS ALL STRESS TO PACK UP AND GO TO ALASKA AND GET A NEW LIFE..ALL HE DOSE IS LOOK AT WACH WHEN THE 15 MINS UO HE OPENS DOOR AND WONT ANSWER ME AT ALL SAYS HE HAS A SCHULE TO KEEP,, HE DONT CARE ABOUT ANY ONE JUST THERE TO GET HIS CHECK BUT THE ONE I TALK REAY CARES I SEEBOTH ON WENDDAY IF THE NERO KEEPS LOOKING AT WATCH AND SAYS ITS STRESS I GET UP AND LEAVE.. FOR I CANT EVEN HOLD LEFT HAND OUT STRIGHT JUST HALF WAY CANT MAKE A FIST NOW RT IS STARTING ALL HE SAYS STRESS AND ROOLS HIS EYES ..I HAVE NO STRENTH AT ALL AND STILL HAVE BAD DREAMS..SO I KNOW HOW THEY RUN YA AROUND THEY JUST DONT CARE AT ALL JUST THERE FOR CHECK SO MY BROTHERS I KNOW HOWYOU ALL FEEL .. SORRY FOR GOING ON SO MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS ... I KNOW WHAT A RUN AROUND YOU ALL GO THREW.. A BROTHER TO YOU ALL RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Monday, January 13, 2003 at 09:01:55 (MST)

Hi All, some VA claims are harder than others, yesterday I sent an e-mail directly to Gale, hope you got it, use everyone you can, DAV VFW Congressmen, But as has been said, with the WW2 vet dying, we need to carry the banner (JOIN & SUPPORT A VSO) I don't care which one Dav, VFW, American Legion & be active & lobby Or we will lose. Your VA Asshole RN, Jim
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
Sheridan, Wy. USA - Monday, January 13, 2003 at 08:35:50 (MST)

Gale, try going to the web site for Viet Nam Medics, ask for help in locating the "Doc" and do a search via their search page. You may need documentation from him (the medic) about the injury. Meanwhile, call the VFW and ask to speak to their attorney about your case. Perhaps our 129th VA nurses can be of help on this issue also. Sadly, your story is an old story, it never changes and it is insulting to all of you(us). As the political strength of our WWII veterans dies (with them), so do all the rights and benefits they demanded after WWII. Without constant pressure and demands placed on todays political representatives by the Korean, Nam, Gulf Veterans, and their supporters, the benefits will disappear....we will be dead...and there will be nothing for our Middle East Veterans when they need medical help with, God only knows what will be, their ailments. The VA, which is overseen by politicians, knows this, and I believe, like our Freds, that they stall for just that reason. Talking to one another does nothing, unless it is to focus on and develope a plan, for a gathering of you warriors(and your supporters) to stop the budget cuts,and run-a-rounds. I've said it before and I'll repeat it here...if we don't step up, we step back. And with great sadness, I tend to agree with our Freds. Perhaps its' time for a march on Washington....followed by visits to the offices of our elected representative of each state...to demand what you were promised. Angry, but with a level head, Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Monday, January 13, 2003 at 07:22:49 (MST)

Gale, Fred, Rick, ....that`s what they are waiting for...US to die and go away. It`s in the grand scheme of things. You can`t scream or threaten them, because you`re in trouble. You have to approach it with a "civilized evil" as I call it.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003 at 21:56:13 (MST)

hi Gale, hey buddy, go to your congressman.if they are here in Indy, you can crash here at my house to save bucksthose V.A. assholes love to play that paper chase game.Anyway, a congressman can get u some answers if, and i do mean if, they take an intrest.you may, and i do mean may, find help thru american Legion (world headquarters are here by the way, if u need to go there) and, or the vfw.They make it a bitch to do Gale.Many times i think they hope the person dies b4 claim goes thru.Anyway,as i said, if u need a place to stay while beating on doors here, ur welcome to stay here, I have plenty of room.I live about 8 miles from most of there offices and am off the last week of this month if u need help being shown around. hang in there buddy,dont let those bean counting bastards get u down.We did the talk,we did the walk. We put up with abuse of years,many of us screamed in the night for a few years, hid during 4th of july fireworks. We are plaged with alcohol abuse, drug abuse,devorice,alone in a crowd,depression,and injurys that we never puched and in some cases never knew about till years later. they dony give a flying shit either till u ask for service connection.At that time they stop ignoring you and slam the door in ur face.You keep knocking at that door buddy, there are a few good people behind that door dispite the bean counters. sorry, this subject pisses me off. Sometimes i think they wish we would all die and go away.
alvis
USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003 at 17:39:23 (MST)

Gale I suggest you get a service officer in your state. I have found that each state is a little diffrent and the officer knows or should know how it goes there. I will ask around.
Rick England
USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003 at 13:22:30 (MST)

Flight, Can anyone tell me what the VA means when they want "new evidence" to reopen my service connected claim? I injured my back in Nam ( while building chopper bunkers out of PSP ) at Dong Ba Tin in 67 and they claim that it's not in my medical records.I went to the medic and he gave me some pain pills and 3 days bedrest. I have two notarized affidavits from my buddies with me at the time and a copy of a letter home to my Mom (with the envelope, dates & all) describing to her what had happened. I have statements from friends that I've worked with over the years, doctor records leading up to my surgery in 83 and to present. I have partial numbness in both legs and constant pain, but, every time I try to reopen the claim I get the same thing......."we need new evidence". Everyone says "don't give up..that's what they want you to do",but, what else can I do? Any suggestions?? Thanks, Gale
Gale <beardatpaige1@cs.com>
Clinton, In USA - Sunday, January 12, 2003 at 12:16:40 (MST)

Gale....I wasn`t gonna say a thing about it, Ohio State`s schedule has been a monster this season out of the first 11 games, six have been ranked teams. And they had a ton of injuries. Newton(Indiana) is a pretty good player, but he`s not a center. I watched the game(Ohio State) on PPV, all you get down here is ACC or SEC. I did get to see the first half of the Kentucky game tonight also.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 21:58:45 (MST)

Ohhhh Freddie, OSU put it on IU tonight. I think IU forgot what they went to Ohio for. IU really needs a big man bad!......Oh well, that's College BB. Gale
Gale
USA - Saturday, January 11, 2003 at 20:39:35 (MST)

Hi Everyone, This is a movie clip about the Huey and pilots who flew in Vietnam. If you are pressed for time, you can trash it. I wish I knew how to make this a hyperlink but I don't know how so you'll have to copy and paste. I don't know where this came from originally but a good friend of mine sent it to me. He was a CE in another (brand X) unit. http://www.intheshadowoftheblade.com/shadow.nsf/html/MovieClips
Larry Kwiatkowski <chrger66@aol.com>
Simi VAlley, CA USA - Friday, January 10, 2003 at 22:36:13 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT.. I GOT REVS WE COMEIN ON WEND THE 18TH AND LEAVE SUN AT NOON I TELL YOU ALL I CANT WAIT TO MEET YOU ALL AND SEE MY CREW CHIFE...AND TO MEET OUR SISTER GENTLY AND JOE,,, I WANT TO MEET YOU ALL......WELL BE SAFE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Friday, January 10, 2003 at 13:08:50 (MST)

Forgot to say thanks to All our wives and friends whom support us through out the year. And a special thanks to our sister Gently for all she does!! Alex
Alex
USA - Friday, January 10, 2003 at 09:37:22 (MST)

Flight: Good to see all the como. Reservations for the VHCMA REUNION are being accepted. Looks like a large turn out this year. Of coarse the 129th has increased in size every year. And, this year will be no exception. I am looking forward to seeing all whom attend. Rick, Barry,Mark&Dee,Pete&TJ are just a few of the regulars, and our brother Cupps!! I will be the out-going president of the VHCMA this year. I got most of what I wanted done. The Memorial designs have been chosen and Charlie Rains will be contacting the winners. A sick call on the VHCMA web site. This ,was set up so we could support our Brothers whom are ill. A card to let them know they are being thought of . And recurting new membership. Any one whom isn't a VHCMA member and wants to join, send me your address and I will send you an application. Or, you can print it off the VHCMA web site. Through these reunions I have had the opportuntiy to meet many brothers of the 129th. That I may have never meet. But,now I can put a face with the name. This site has grown over the last few years. And I think it will continue to grow. More and more brothers are starting to look for their Bro's from Nam!! As I said in the past. It, doesn't make a difference what you did in the 129th. It took all of us as team to MAKE IT HAPPEN!!! Most of us were Crew, but, there is alot of the Bro's whom worked along side us to make the 129th the unit it was!! So, any of you whom visit this site and weren't a crew member YOU FOUND YOUR HOME OF THE 129TH!! And A huge WELCOME HOME!! Alex 129th65-68 Current President of VHCMA. See you all in Atlanta!!
Alex Fernwalt <afernwal@midsouth.rr.com>
Memphis, TN USA - Friday, January 10, 2003 at 09:31:29 (MST)

The hellhole seat is the the well seat where we sat in the slicks. The fabric is orginal but the frame is diffrent. I can't tell whether it is gunner or ce I guess it doesn't matter they could fit ether side.****** Robbie it must be what I am typing even with reply it bounced. Maybe its the HEHEHEHE that sent it back. HEHEHE Flight be careful out there
Rick England
USA - Friday, January 10, 2003 at 07:07:28 (MST)

Gale, I just get bored here in North Carolina, if I was home in Ohio, there`s plenty of things for me to do. I don`t have any close friends down here, Columbus I can always find someone to hang out with. I could drive to Coldwater and get on Mark`s nerves for a day once a week. Or catch a couple of the guys that are retired also and see who could tell the biggest lie. Plus I could go up to my in-laws and hang out with my father-in-law and mess around on the farm. In Columbus, the pub opens up at 6 o`clock in the morning and everyone meets for coffee and bullshits around till about sports and their kids screwing up just life in general. Down here all the clubs and pubs are all private and as soon as they hear me talk....they know you a stranger. I look foward for Kim to get home from work. And most the out-of-towners were transfered here, they just didn`t come in and get a job down here. So I got all the moves, and nobody will give me the ball.....Now in Europe...it was a different place and a different face every day. Everything was new and being a American, someone would always want to talk to you and hang out.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 20:41:31 (MST)

Gale, i was raised to respect my elders. I'm 50, not any where near ready to pack it in, even though I can afford it. Truth is, I love what I do, so it's not really work, just fun that I get paid for. there's plenty of free time to coach, teach athletics, fly, run, contemplate my navel, kick the crap out of punching bags and wing chun dummies. Winter does get depressing at times, though. Skiing is great, as long's the temps are above zero!Rick, how much snow you get down your way? I was in Columbus Ga. in February 73. Got a snowstorm there that shut down the state for four days! no plows, nothing to do but wait for it to melt!HHHEEEEEEEEE....... Fred, got your message, just got in from school board. I managed to lose your phone number...durrh on me...at least I wrote it down!
Kim La Voie <kimlav@megalink.net>
USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 20:19:09 (MST)

Flight, I know that Mark has something in the works for a Huey. I've located a boneyard that says he can get us a shell to use for a static display for $20,000 !!!??? Gale
Gale
USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 18:52:27 (MST)

Rick, Is that what the guy meant when he said "hellhole seat"? Fred, I've really enjoyed retirement for the past three years, but, January in Indiana can get boring. I took a security guard job for 3 or 4 weeks for some vacation money ( since my "EX" took an "AX" to my pension )!!! Kim, I guess you can call me old since I turned 60 last May.......just remember buddy, that some people don't get to grow old, so, don't wait too long! ;o) Gale
Gale <beardatpaige1@cs.com>
Clinton, In USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 18:46:07 (MST)

That Lobster sounds espically the price. I just recieved the seat for ether the gunner or ce from The Iron Butterfly. Its outstanding. Mark hope you got a place for it. Also a pic when it was a Dustoff ship.
Rick England
USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 15:57:23 (MST)

Rick, up here it's lobster lobster lobster! Folks on the boats can't give em away, forty miles inland they're four bucks a pound! I'll save that retiring shit for old age, lifes too much fun to hang myself out on the line, so far. One more month till spring training, that's when the fun really begins. I'm heading to sunny fla. to take in a week of low cost Base Ball, college softball, then get ready for the sun to find it's way north. Hot Lanta sounds like a good one to make, looking forward to it. Heard that familiar wop wop wop today. SAR bird out of Brunswick Naval Air Station on it's way north to their winter training area...memories..........
Kim La Voie <kimlav@megalink.net>
Livermore, Me USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 14:56:05 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT... JUST WANT TO SAY WELCOME HOME MIKE TAKE CARE BROTHER..AND BE SAFE.A BROTHER ALWAYS TO ALL HERE...RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 08:42:24 (MST)

Jim I am out of pins. I am looking for another place hopefully will have them for Atlanta. It took about 3 months last time. Gale hard getting back in that grove again I have been wondering about that, plus the fact I'll get pissed because I don't like the way they do things an get fired. I was thinking of taking flying lessons HEHEHEHE. Fred I have to go grocery shopping today. What to have for dinner tonight??? We had salmon with lemon butter and green beans, last night. This is getting pretty bad stop rambling Rick. Be careful out there.
Rick England <bd431@mindspring.com>
USA - Thursday, January 09, 2003 at 08:19:35 (MST)

WORK......that`s a bad four letter word.....actually I get so bored down here in Carolina...I`m thinking of looking for a job or starting a small business of home repair or lawncare or something. Money is not the issue, just bored to death. 220 channels on the TV and nothing on. I keep the house spotless and the dishes clean, bathrooms spotless....the army trained me well when it comes to cleaning. I`ve made a damn good wife. I`d love to work in a sports bars, but Kim said "no way". That`s why I`m on this computer so much!!!!! When did you go back to work Gale?
Fred Skaggs
USA - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 20:38:03 (MST)

Gently, Gently!!! I've never heard such talk!!!! "Welcome Home" from me also to all the FNG's! Rick, still working 12 hour days for this month....will have funds for LZ Atlanta. It's been hell going back to work. Clear left, Gale
Gale Beard 67-68 <beardatpaige1@cs.com>
Clinton, In US of A - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 18:04:40 (MST)

THIS IS FOR RICK, HEY LISTEN BRO,,LIKE I'M GOING TO BE ONE OF THOSE FNG'S,,,YEAH I CAN SAY THAT....ALL KIDDING ASIDE RICK I NEED SOME INFO ON ORDERING HATPINS,,,,OK RUB IT IN IF THEY RUN OUT OF ROOMS,,,I'LL SLEEP IN BIG MACK,,,THATS MY TRUCK,,,BEATS HELL OUT OF A RICE PADDY....DAVE POWERS I'VE BEEN SITTING ON PINS & NEEDLES WAITING TO HEAR ABOUT THE EXPERIENCE,,,,,LATER FLIGHT,,,JIM THE FNG WITH THE COOL ??????????????
JIM OLIVER <OLIVER_31683@HOTMAIL.COM>
PEMBROKE, GA USA - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 16:27:00 (MST)

We now have our airline tickets and room for Atlanta. Feels good! "Welcome Home" to our(dare I say FNG's?, no, better not)new friends and brothers. Always there, Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Heaven, USA - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 15:14:14 (MST)

Welcome Home Mike.********Robbie I will check it out an try again.******** Reservations are being taken at the Airport Atlanta Marriott at this time. All info on the VHCMA site under reunion info. Flight be careful out there
Rick England <bd431@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 09:26:02 (MST)

129th.72 transfered over from the 229th AHB 1st Cav,Div im looking for a WOI that smoked temperello cigars, we crippled in to the 101 and had a hard landing. came home to the 283rd medevac Biggs army air field FT. Bliss Tx. imsorry icant remember Name have a hard time with memorie . also a WO4 name Stringer Thanks allways a Brother MIke,ps keep em flying
Michael D. Huber <mhuber46>
Midland , Tx. USA - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 07:06:25 (MST)

Hi Fellow Brothers I served with the 129 AHC Bulldogs June 1972 till Dec.72
Michael D. Huber <mhuber46>
Midland , Tx. USA - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 06:58:55 (MST)

Rick, I can only think if you are typing the name in, there is a dot between my first and last names. Maybe that's not being put in? My brother was leaving that out and had the same problem. The only other reason it might bounce is if there is swear words, or anything to do with a site that is in question in it the Firewall here at Kodak would stop the msg. I really need to get a computer for the home. I'm probably the last CE in the world that doesn't have one. I'm really glad for the Ohio folks and their recent upset of the canes, and i am thouroughly disgusted with the Giants. Nuff said... Rob
Robbie
Rochester, NY USA - Wednesday, January 08, 2003 at 05:49:24 (MST)

Robbie commo still bounceing on replys. I don't know whats wrong????????
Rick England
USA - Tuesday, January 07, 2003 at 13:07:18 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT......JUST WANT TO SAY HELLO..IAM DOING OK ..NOT GOING TO LET IT BRING ME DOWN...THANKS ALAX...I CANT WAIT TO BEE U ALL IN ATLANA.. TAKE CARE MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS A BROTHER TO U ALL AGAIN IF NOT FOR YOU AL I HAVE NO IDEAR WHERE I BE LOVE YA ALL...RAY BE SAFE
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Tuesday, January 07, 2003 at 10:18:22 (MST)

Max,my friend, thanks for that information, Kind of ironic, but I was station at Belvoir permanent party at the OCS BN. I remember the prep school.... I drove around a Full Bird, that love to survey the troops. But he spent most of his time at the "O" club. I was at Belvoir from June 1969 thru December 1969. I got levied for Nam there, I was assigned a unit before I went to Nam....91st Engineer Bn. Bravo Company, but I only had 17 days leave before Nam, so I went AWOL so I could be home for Xmas and New Years. I went to LPC at Ft.Jackson,S.C. and made SP/4 out of school. But I got a Article 15 for being AWOL for 7 days, so they busted me down to PFC. When I got to Nam, the 91st Eng. didn`t need me, so that`s how I ended up in the 17th Aviation Group. Being a 05B20, I would have been in the field with a Eng. unit. So going AWOL wasn`t all bad...I made SP/4 back after two months in Nam. Sgt. Meeks said I could make SP/5 if I took interest in being a CE....but my brain didn`t work on that sphere...I just wasn`t mechanically inclined. That stuff was just so abstract to me. CE`s and mechanics use to do some amazing stuff.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Tuesday, January 07, 2003 at 09:06:15 (MST)

Fred, et al. No, Coach K didn't serve in Viet Nam. After West Point, he spent his post-graduate five year military commitment (1969-1974) in various units, including a tour in Korea, where he made Captain. His last two years of service were spent as a training instructor at the West Point Prepatory School, Fort Belvoir, Va.
Max Whittington <Max@OregonPI.com>
USA - Tuesday, January 07, 2003 at 07:35:22 (MST)

Flight: Well enjoyed the history lessons. Wasn't to good in school at that subject. When the army told me I was going to Vietnam, I aksked what part of the Hawaiian Islands it was. Never the less I found out that it wasn't a resort!!! Mark I understand about time. It's something we both have little of. But, June will get here fast enough Bro!! Ray, hang in there!! It's tough getting the VA claims going. But, were here to give you the support and help. I glad to see so many Buckeye fans. But, the browns still having trouble with the Steelers as usual. Clear Left and out of here!! Alex
Alex Fernwalt <afernwal@midsouth.com>
Memphis, TN USA - Tuesday, January 07, 2003 at 07:01:37 (MST)

Jeff and the rest of the flight, in WW2 the most officers in the Army were from TEXAS A&M, surprizes me about Patton, because on a military trivia game, the answer was VMI. I`ll have to e-mail them idiots at Milton&Bradley!!!!! Coach K played for Bob Knight at West Point, I think that`s the last time they had a wining record. Come to think about it, is Coach K a Nam Vet? Because that was the mid-sixties that Coach K played at West Point.....prime meat for Nam.....young 2LT with great leadership ability, I`ll have to check that out.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 22:55:56 (MST)

Freddie, While I don't know the answer to the university question(I'm still thinking) I must correct you on Gen Patton's college days. He is a graduate of the United States Military Academy at West Point. You are partially correct in that after high school he attended VMI for one year as a prep for entering the academy. By the way, my wife joins you in mourning the Browns. I on the other hand could not be happier with a Steelers win. Thank-you for all the info on the b-ball coaches. Found it interesting. Where did Coach K. go to college? Hint- It was not a southern university.
jeff sauers
USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 18:51:42 (MST)

1. Food has replaced sex in my life, now I can't even get into my own pants. 2. The closest I ever got to a 4.0 in school was my blood alcohol content. 3. Marriage changes passion...suddenly you're in bed with a relative. 4. I saw a woman wearing a sweat shirt with "Guess" on it... I said, "Implants"...wrong answer! 5. I don't do drugs anymore 'cause I find I get the same effect just standing up fast. 6. A sign in a Chinese Pet Store: "Buy one dog, get one flea." 7. I have my own little world. But it's okay, they know me here. 8. Money can't buy happiness, but it sure makes misery easier to live with. 9. I got a sweater for Christmas...I really wanted a screamer or a moaner. 10. If flying is so safe, why do they call the airport the terminal? 11. I don't approve of political jokes...I've seen too many get elected. 12. The most precious thing we have is life. Yet it has absolutely no trade in value. 13. There are two sides to every divorce: Yours and shit head's. 14. If life deals you lemons, make lemonade; if it deals you tomatoes, make Bloody Mary's. But if it deals you a truckload of hand grenades; now -- That's a message!!! 15. I love being married. It's so great to find that one special person you want to annoy for the rest of your life. 16. Shopping tip: You can get shoes for 85 cents at the bowling alley. 17. I am a nobody, and nobody is perfect, therefore I am perfect. 18. I married my wife for her looks...but not the ones she's giving me lately! 19. Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've stayed alive. 20. Isn 't it funny how the mood can be ruined so quickly by just one busted condom. 21. If carrots are so good for the eyes, how come I see so many dead rabbits on the highway. 22. Welcome to Shit Creek -- Sorry, We're Out of Paddles! 23. How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America? 24. Why is it that most nudists are people you don't want to see naked? 25. Snowmen fall from Heaven unassembled. 26. Every time I walk into a singles bar I can hear Mom's wise words: "Don't pick that up, you don't know where it's been
alvis <ghoastrider1@aol.com>
indy, USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 18:11:42 (MST)

I know we were not around in 1902. However....... The year is 1902, one hundred years ago ... What a difference a century makes. Here are the US statistics for 1902: 1. The average life expectancy in the US was forty-seven (47). 2. Only 14 Percent of the homes in the US had a bathtub. 3. Only 8 percent of the homes had a telephone. A three-minute call from Denver to New York City cost eleven dollars. 4. There were only 8,000 cars in the US and only 144 miles of paved roads. 5. The maximum speed limit in most cities was 10 mph. 6. Alabama, Mississippi, Iowa, and Tennessee were each more heavily populated than California. With a mere 1.4 million residents, California was only the 21st most populous state in the Union. 7. The tallest structure in the world was the Eiffel Tower. 8. The average wage in the US was 22 cents an hour. 9. The average US worker made between $200 and $400 per year. 10. A competent accountant could expect to earn $2000 per year, a dentist $2,500 Per year, a veterinarian between $1,500 and $4,000 per year, and a mechanical engineer about $5,000 per year. 11. More than 95 percent of all births in the US took place at home. 12. Ninety percent of all US physicians had no college education. Instead, they attended medical schools, many of which were condemned in the press and by the government as "substandard." 13. Sugar cost four cents a pound. Eggs were fourteen cents a dozen. Coffee cost fifteen cents a pound. 14. Most women only washed their hair once a month and they used borax or egg yolks for shampoo. 15. Canada passed a law prohibiting poor people from entering the country for any reason. 16. The five leading causes of death in the US were: A. Pneumonia and influenza B. Tuberculosis C. Diarrhea D. Heart disease E. Stroke 17. The American flag had 45 stars. Arizona, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Hawaii and Alaska hadn't been admitted to the Union yet. 18. The population of Las Vegas, Nevada was 60. 19. Crossword puzzles, canned beer, and iced tea hadn't been invented. 20. There were no Mother's Day or Father's Day. 21. One in ten US adults couldn't read or write. Only 6 percent of all Americans had graduated from high school. 22. Marijuana, heroin, and morphine were all available over the counter at corner drugstores. According to one pharmacist, "Heroin clears the complexion, gives buoyancy to the mind, regulates the stomach and the bowels, and is, in fact, a perfect guardian of health." 23. Eighteen percent of households in the US had at least one full-time servant or domestic. 24. There were only about 230 reported murders in the entire US! And #25 -- Oh, oh, oh, and the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE WAS STILL CONSTITUTIONAL.
alvis
USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 18:04:24 (MST)

Bruno, My Friend, great answer also, but not the right answer.....but that`s where Gen.Patton went to college.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 12:34:12 (MST)

Could that be Virginia Military Institute????Lane Tower calling Bernie Hernandez. Where are you man??
Bruno E Sanchez <Bsanchez1@stx.rr.com>
Laredo, Tx USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 11:58:23 (MST)

Gentlemen, I would like to share an email that was sent to www.virtualwall.org, and then forwarded to me, by Ken Davis, co-founder of the memorial site. It's regarding Glenn Nakowski KIA 7/22/72, 129th AHC. It's from Glenn's sister. "Thank you to all the men who contacted us in the last year to share memories of > my brother. My family is so grateful to hear your stories. After 32 years, we > are amazed that so many of you remember our beloved Glenn. Thank you for > keeping his memory alive!" See how important it is to post a memorial---please continue to do so, any time you want to. Always there and proud of you-Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 09:55:05 (MST)

Great answer Jim!!!! but not the right one. Hint: It`s a southern university
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 09:15:49 (MST)

Fred Skaggs; could it be the Citadel??? Jim
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
Sheridan, Wy. USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 08:43:43 (MST)

Screwed that up!!!!!! Now, Question: During World War 2, what institution of higher learning, produced the most Army officer`s? Hint... it`s not West Point
Fred Skaggs
USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 08:13:19 (MST)

Flight, Good Morning, A little bit of trivia for the "new year", Question: What institution of higher learning, produced the most Army officers, and it`s not West Point!!!!
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Monday, January 06, 2003 at 08:08:29 (MST)

Should learn how to spell before writing sorry
Howard Boling <jprh2b@hot mail.com>
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 21:46:00 (MST)

Kim and all other 129ers and B Troop 7?17 Air CaV and 170th A.H.C. people it was fun and a honer to fly with all of you in good and bad times and hold all of you dear to my heart
Howard Shorty Boling <jprh2b@hotmail.com>
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 21:43:52 (MST)

Mark.....I hope that`s not the sound of a 44 Mag being cocked.....LOL.... you`ll be "clear right"....click...click
Fred Skaggs
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 21:41:57 (MST)

......Freddy Boy........Click,Click............................
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 19:46:33 (MST)

Marky Mark.....Sports, Mom`s "Apple Pie", and Bud.....can`t be much more American than that. James Dean.....guess I`m more a "Old School" Paul Newman type person, he`s from Cleveland,Ohio and went to Kenyon College. Plus, Paul`s been married to the same woman for over 40 years, in Hollywood and "the sexual revolution" of the 60`s, that`s pretty good. Plus he loved " fast cars" and like to race them like James Dean also. I think Paul Newman was a little better driver than James Dean..... As far as "flag waving" I think maybe I wave mine a little to far LEFT for some of the brothers on the web-site. I`ve been trying to stay away from that Political stuff, especially as violatile as the landscape has been lately.... Wouldn`t you agree to that aspect of what I`m saying....
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 19:03:19 (MST)

..Evenin' FLIGHT................BOY, OH Boy...........sure is great to see all the commo in the FLIGHT LOG BOOK.......sorry I been AWOL fer a spell............seems like to me that there has been 4 weekends in the last two weeks......along comes Monday, then Tuesday is like a Friday.....then comes Thursday, that seems like a Monday, and along comes Friday again...........been a busy bar bizz fer a spell........still not an excuse to not be here with ya 'all............got some new FNG's that have reach me, and have not had time to get them in the CONTACTS section.........will try and do so soon........SPORTS!!!!......glad to see all havin' the commo bout it all....to tell ya the truth......I used to be a very advide sporst fan. "TINS"........I have road the elavator with Lynn Swann of the Steelers........BUT..........over the last 10 years I have lost the zeal to be a part of all of that.........not that it is bad that you guys still get into it......I just cant find the sense in it all...........I wish that people would swing the Amewrican Flag as much as they do the Terrible Towel that the Steeler fans do!!!!!!!.........I dont know......maybe I am slippin' by the way side of it all.............I understand the passion, and the excitement, and the rush of it all.....and I used to have all that........but.......it just dont matter to me nomo..................what does matter to me is that you guys and gals are out there somewhere for me ifin' I ever need ya.......and someday I probably will........lots of great commo about the #431 of the 129th being out there. I agree with plan "B".............we should support that bird until she is grounded forever........as far as the "BONE YARD" birds in AZ.........I have a 28 year career Marine that is working on getting one for the Pop-A-Top..........and Rick E. I am sure that we can get one from the BONE YARD for free if we just pay for the trasportation......and I have a few handles on that aspect also..........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................sometimes I feel like I have stared somthing here and do not do enough to be a part of it. I am sorry for that.......guilty as charged, not by any of you, only of myself.......you all have been wonderful to Dee and I............we love you........I had a lot more time on my hands before I wasnt the BOSS.............did not realize it would take so much of my time................allways more to do then can be done in a day.....................not sayin' this for pitty.......just letting you know that I am sorry for not being here so much.........................at times I feel so close to you all, and at times so far away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...........the place close to Coldwater that Gus talks about could be the Home Town Of James Dean........crap...cant think of that name.........let me look at a map////it's in Indiana......can ya believe it.....I cant even find a map in the house.....Freddy Boy S......you gotta know the home town og James Dean over there in IN?????????.......shit , what the hell is that town????????????........ALSO......In the small town of HILLARD OHIO.....there is a great static display of not only Huey, but a Cobra, an Fixed wing and others.......Hillard is just a small burg over towrad the east side of Ohio...........I gotta go gang............is always a pleasure to be just a finger tip away from you all..............and closer to Larry!!!!!!!!!...............always, always.........your brother...............Mark
Mark Jackson <fourfour@bright.net>
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 17:55:54 (MST)

Thanks Rick, If you are asking about Siesta Key, it's at Sarsota about half way down the Gulf coast. Gale
Gale
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 17:25:43 (MST)

DAMN BROWNS!!!!!! They INVENT ways to lose!!!!! Good Lord, how does a team let the Steelers beat you THREE TIMES in one season. But that`s enough for me in one season!!!! Flight, I was surfin in on the 174th AHC web-site, and was reading and signing their "guest book". But I noticed a posting of a Todd Strong, he was the CO of the engineer company that "built" Lane Army Airfield. He was asking about anyone that was there during that time frame. So I sent him a e-mail inviting him to our web-site. There is a couple of "brothers" here that were there at that time. Is There?
Fred Skaggs
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 14:59:07 (MST)

Well the Browns gave it a fight, I thought their pass defense wasn't there. The steelers hung in with a good defense. Good luck to the steelers.
Rick England
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 14:51:06 (MST)

Sorry about that here it is**http://www.ipsystems.com/powmia/documents/Lebray.html***Rucker sounds a little to far, I went to eustis sorry I am not familiar with that area. What part of Florida is that? Is that the Florida Keyes? GO BROWNS
Rick England
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 14:22:37 (MST)

Rick, Check what out???...It's about a 5 hour drive from Atlanta to Mother Rucker's. I have the addresses of two buddies that live by Rucker and both of them work at Rucker. Our own 129th'er Don Whigham lives in Headland and a buddy from the 174th AHC lives in Enterprise. I'm going on down to Siesta Key, Fla. when I leave Atlanta ( a little beach R&R), but , I may come back through there. Gale
Gale
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 09:15:10 (MST)

Rick England, my friend, Ft.Rucker is about 235 miles from Atlanta, I think the town is Ozark,Alabama.... 150 of those miles are "freeway driving" on I-85 southbound. But I think the remaining miles would be "two-lane" country roads. That would be a wild little side trip.
Fred Skaggs
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 09:14:53 (MST)

If you get a chance check this out very intresting. Yves Le Bray PFC French Army. Robbie I could not reply to your message it kept coming back do you have another addy? 431 might be availible as a static setup. They might part it out. I will see what happens. I also recieved a pic from Rucker with hueys in it. Hard to read tail #s. but they do have allot of them. I was wondering how far Rucker is from Atlanta? That would be a good trip if not to far. Flight be careful out there.
Rick England <bd431@mindspring.com>
USA - Sunday, January 05, 2003 at 07:09:17 (MST)

ACC....Wake Forest coach Skip Prosser came from Xavier of Cincinnati,Ohio. North Carolina State coach Herb Sendek, came from Miami U. of Ohio. Pete Gillen of the U. of Virginia came from Xavier of Ohio. Gary Williams of Maryland Terps coached at Ohio State. Florida State`s coach was a asst. coach at Kentucky last year. And the Famous Coach K of Duke, well his mentor was a guy named Bobby Knight who was a( Ohio State Alumni Class of 1960) also NCAA National Champions in basketball that year. Seems all these " great coaches" of the ACC have roots or "cut their teeth" in the Midwest. So much for ACC basketball. Only one program (Duke) has more wins in basketball, in the last 10 years than U. of Cincinnati......
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 22:05:03 (MST)

FREDDIE, I GUESS THE MIAMI NOTICED THEY WERE NOT PLAYING IN THE BIG EAST LAST NITE. MY WIFE WAS BESIDE HERSELF. YOU HAVE ME WORRIED ABOUT THE BASKETBALL THING THO. HAVE YOU NOT HEARD OF THE ACC. YOU KNOW TEAMS LIKE CAROLINA, DUKE, MARYLAND ETC. I CAN ONLY BE HAPPY WITH A UNC WIN OF COURSE AND WOULD TAKE THE DEVIL HIMSELF BEFORE DUKE. I WILL STATE AT THIS TIME THAT WHEN THE BIG DANCE IS HELD AN ACC TEAM WILL CHOOSE THE FINAL SONG.
jeff sauers
GO TARHEELS, NC USA - Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 17:11:25 (MST)

Merry Christmas and Happy new year to all my friends in the 129th. I hope this new year treats you all well. Drive carefully and be safe. Bill Whelan bwhelan@thedisplayworks.net Elk Grove Village, IL USA - Tuesday, December 24, 2002 at 15:30:39 (MST)**********Mark can you Bill's name put in the contact list?
Rick England
USA - Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 16:06:38 (MST)

This is super! Much faster loading. I periodically go through the pages and re-discover things that are important to me. Happy new year to everyone seeing this message! - - Bob
Bob
South-West Germany - Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 11:39:20 (MST)

Freddie, it was a fun game to watch. I get a reality check on my age whenever I watch these young kids taking a beating, and getting right back into the fray! I heard somewhere that the greatest wins come from facing the greatest opponents..the old big ten is holding it's own on the national level. We're getting pounded today. foot and a half on the ground, and more to come! Ahhh, winter! Kim
Kim La Voie <kimlav@megalink.net>
USA - Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 10:27:12 (MST)

The helicopter I saw on display was at an American Legion Post, and It was a Slick. If I remember right it was an H model. It was near Clodwater, so Mark should know where it is.
Ted Buisker <Skyking@stateline-isp.com>
Davis, IL. USA - Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 08:12:17 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT.. AND TO ALL OHIO BUCK EYES AS I TAKE FOOT OUT OF MOUTH BUT I WAS JUST JOKING ANY WAY IAM GLAD THEY WON TAKE CARE ALL.A BROTHER ALWAYS LOVE YA ALL...RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL>
STREET , MD USA - Saturday, January 04, 2003 at 07:39:00 (MST)

YES.....YES......YES..... OHIO STATE IS NO.1, NATIONAL CHAMPIONS, I told you all, I SMELLED UPSET!!!!!!! Great time for OHIO......we`re not some county in North Texas.....CUPS....Miami is a great team, and they`ll be back next year. Just like OHIO STATE will be back. Now I`ll switch gears here and look forward to the NCAA Basketball Tourney, my teams are U. of Cincinnati, U. of Kentucky, U. of Louisville, Ohio State, I love basketball.......Cleveland Browns are gonna get beat by Pittsburg Steelers on Sunday, so Pro football is done for me......and I refuse to watch pro basketball until the play-offs,
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 22:49:34 (MST)

FREDDIE--MY WIFE SAYS I HAVE TO PULL FOR OSU OR SLEEP OUTSIDE. GUESS I WILL BE PULLING FOR OSU. WHAT THE HECK? SINCE PENN STATE WENT DOWN IN FLAMES I MIGHT AS WELL. GO BUCKEYES.
JEFF
USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 14:55:56 (MST)

FRED,,,GLAD TO SEE YA POSTING,,I HEAR THOSE DRUM BEATS,,,THE CALL TO ORDER....JUST A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO IT WAS "HOW BOUT THEM DOGS",,,,,,AN NOW """""GO GO GO BUCKEYE'S,,,YA GOTTA LOVE IT. JIM
JIM OLIVER <OLIVER_31683@HOTMAIL.COM>
PEMBROKE, G USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 14:39:08 (MST)

OH.... Jim W..... Iowa broke my heart last night....but it was 48 days between end of the season game and the bowl game, that`s a long time. Southern Cal is like the Lakers to me....Hollywood players.....Showtime......and all that crap. Yea....by MOS(O5B20) "Radio Operator" I was a grunt, but lucked out by getting assigned to the 17th Aviation Group. I got assigned to the 355th Aviation Company, a "Sky Crane" unit at Phu Hiep. But most of the guys in the "commo bunker" at the 355th were "Radio Teletype" people, much more advanced than me. So they had me doing "shit duty", filling sandbags, digging ditches, etc. And most the guys I was working with were privates E-1`s, they had got into trouble or just didn`t give a shit. But I met a Capt. Danio, from Cleveland,Ohio, a former Green Baret, who had become a pilot and a CE SP/5 Gibson from the 238th Gunrunners, they would "kid me" because they thought I had just got to Nam and was already in trouble. I explain to them, that the 355th had nothing for me to do and this would be my job while in Nam. Well, Capt.Danio, ask if I would be interested in being a door-gunner, so I said yea!!!!!!! And the good Capt. and SP/5 Gibson talk to a LT. Col. Parlas and the Lt.Col. called me in to talk to him and the rest is history...two days later I was headed north to An Son.....
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 10:04:33 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT.. I TALKED TO RICK ENGLAND HE SOUNDS MUCH BETTER...NOW I SAY GO MIANI. MAKE THE BUCKEYES LOOK LIKE THE CLOSED EYES...JUST JOKIKNG TRY TO STIR SOMETHING UP ;-).. HOPE YOU ALL KNOW IAM JOKING TO MANMY FROM OH. HERE LOL. YOU ALL TAHE CARE MY BROTHERS ..LOVE YOU ALL .. AND HOPE AGAIN YOU ALL KNOW IAM JUST JOKING THANKS...RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 09:45:35 (MST)

Tomorrow is the birthday of SP5 Robert Wendell Gilliam-CE-129th AHC. Let's all give him a moment of our time and if you have a story to share, that would be wonderful. He was KIA 10/7/66. I will post a memorial to him at www.virtualwall.org. Please visit and do the same. Happy Birthday Robert. Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 09:42:43 (MST)

Folks, There were a number of ahc's that called their gun platoon cobras ( even though using b& c models) Personally i preferred B&C for close support on a CA as they were able to get closer,stay with you all the way through the LZ & just plain added a sense of security. Remember that the F4 TAC Air teams off PHU Cat called themselves cobras or at least one team of them did ( a little foggy here). & during 2 hitches , I had about 4 or 5 different gunners with 11b mos, came straight from the infantry. The best one I remember was a guy named larry (when I was in the 120th) He came from the Americal Div & had been hit in the legs but not bad enough to go home so they sent him to us. Please try to remember that most folks just do not understand all these little nuances, even if they were there. ( The important thing is that WE do. Thanks Fred Skaggs & I agree & with the humblest apologies to those on Florida (Go OSU, I am tired of MIAMI winning) The thing I was saddest about was how flat Iowa played last night. My Best to all & again happy New year, Jim
Jim Westwang <westwang@attbi.com>
Sheridan, Wy. USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 09:07:22 (MST)

Flight......Big Game tonight...I think I smell a upset of Miami.... Go OHIO STATE!!!!!! Honestly, my Mom got into the "bar business" by running a couple bars on campus. I lived in the suburb of Grandview, that borders campus on the northwest side of Columbus,Ohio. On a clear winter day, you could see " the Horseshoe"(football stadium) from my attic window. In winter time we played basketball underneath the "horseshoe". We use to go to the ROTC building to warm up, hoping the get a glance or a autograph from Woody Hayes....he was a college professor in Military History...in the off season. You can`t grow up in Columbus,Ohio without Ohio State University touching you life at some point. So much of my teen years were spent "on campus" that you just feel a part of it. My High School was on campus...... also OSU is the biggest university in the United States, 55,000 undergrad students and another 25,000 graduate students in Law school, Dental school, Med school and other post-grad programs. So controlling a crowd after a football game victory is no small task....for the 15th largest city in the US.....GO BUCKS.......
Fred Skaggs
USA - Friday, January 03, 2003 at 08:24:27 (MST)

I recall more than one radio conversation that end up with the statement, "I thought you said you where a cobra gun team." Gus
Ted Gustafson <tgus@uslink.net>
USA - Thursday, January 02, 2003 at 12:21:52 (MST)

Fred, et al, I've run into that misunderstanding about "cobras," myself, as well as others. Recently my VFW service officer asked how 11B40 (infantry sargeant) could be an MOS in a helicopter unit; when I told him I was the "gunners' sargeant" for my flight, he immediately responded, "There's no such thing as a 'Gunnery Sargeant' in the Army, only in the Marines!" And later I had to explain that, no, the 101st didn't have their own helicopters when I was there (66-67), nor did the 4th Infantry, nor did the CIA (for whom we flew a few missions). I guess there are so many "combat wannabes" around that any misunderstanding about RVN service is immediately suspect. Max
Max Whittington
USA - Thursday, January 02, 2003 at 09:55:25 (MST)

Welcome to 2003 everyone. Please be a year of peace, please. Glad you are all "safe," and for those of you still mentally strong enough to "over do it"..I hope your physical self is feeling better. LOL Now, about non-profit status.....isn't the flight crew organization non-profit? And if so, can't we use the tax I.D. number because the 129th is part of it? A little help on this one Alex please. Ray, the group is absolutely fine with you being selected this Christmas. Trust me and relax about it. No one is upset or mad, and we are all looking forward to meeting you and Gail in Atlanta. And if you continue, I'll make sure your coffee is very weak when we have such while in Atlanta! LOL Always there, Gently
Gently <jsinger@uwm.edu>
Peace, USA - Thursday, January 02, 2003 at 08:46:05 (MST)

Good Morning Flight, Someone said there was a helicopter at a VFW Post in Ohio, that`s in Baltimore, Ohio.( Close to Buckeye Lake southeast of Columbus). They have a Cobra Gunship sitting out front. I was there only one time,it wasn`t a overly friendly place. I was trying to explain to some of the fella`s, about the "Cobra Gunship Platoon" that I had the honor of working with. Somehow they didn`t "grasp the concept" of Bravo and Charlie model gunships and doorgunners. As one guy said," Boy....there`s only one Cobra helicopter, and that`s it sittin on the front yard". I just finished my beer and "backed out" of there.... Well looks like you guys were busy during the Holiday`s, emotion`s were running high!!!!! It was great to be home in Ohio(north Texas) for a "white Xmas"....
Fred Skaggs <ac459429@earthlink.net>
Raleigh, NC USA - Thursday, January 02, 2003 at 07:50:46 (MST)

Good morning flight! I had an email from someone who is looking for anyone connected to the 129th during 68/70. He didn't give his name so I am of no help there. I told him to contact the 129 at this site. I know you will be most helpful to him. His email address is y72749@msn.com If you can help contact him. Hopefully he will visit this site and rejoin the group. As always WELCOME HOME Katharine
Katharine <fricabeunme@aol.com>
USA - Thursday, January 02, 2003 at 05:06:23 (MST)

129th and friends God Bless and keep you all. Thank you for remembering my brother Ken in your prayers and postings on his birthday and always. I have just recently come across your site and it has been a great source of comfort to me simply knowing you all are out there. Would love to hear from those of you which may have known him. Thank you and Happy New Year to all...
David Wells (brother of SP4 Kenneth W Wells 66-00986) <starssoftball@hotmail.com>
Roswell, GA USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 22:21:29 (MST)

There is an American Legion Post in a town east of Coldwater that has a Huey on display.
Ted Buisker <Skyking@stateline-isp.com>
Davis, IL. USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 20:39:53 (MST)

Prosit Der Neujahrstag!! I know a huey is one expensive ride,those 1500 horses don't eat hay!!!! A static display would be fun, a great gathering place. I'm in for what ever we can make happen. Is there a VFW or other Vets organization in Coldwater??? Maybe they could help with the non profit status???? Shorty Boling, glad you made the site. It was fun flying with you as a sister ship crewchief, Miami Beach, Tuy Hoa, LZ English, Pleiku, all the fun spots! Shaving cream fights, parties in officer country...pilots and crewchiefs, what rank???? Kim
Kim La Voie <kimlav@megalink.net>
Livermore, Me USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 15:05:28 (MST)

HELLO FLIGHT.. I HOPE YU ALL HAD A GRSTE NEW REAT...RINKI NEEN TRYING TO GRT A HOLD YOU. DIDDO OE SAMETHING WROMG LET ME KNOW IT BOTHERS ME ..ARE YOU ALL MAD BECAUE I GOT THE MONEY TO GO TO ATLANA,,I ELL YOU IF NOT FOR THS=AT WE COULD NOY HAVE GONE I THANK UOU ALL A BROTHER ALWAYS RAY
RAY GAGNER <STILWATING@AOL.COM>
STREET, MD USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 13:46:29 (MST)

Wishing all members of the 129th. and their families a Happy New Year. Menace May69-Dec70.
Ed Wagner (Menace) <EdJudiWagner@aol.com>
Troy, ohio USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 12:17:58 (MST)

I hope everyone had a safe one last night. Be careful out here
Rick England <bd431@mindspring.com>
USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 08:07:58 (MST)

GOOD MORNING AND HAPPY NEW YEAR. HERE'S HOPPING THAT EVERYONE REMAINS HEALTHY, WEALTHY AND WISE IN THE NEW YEAR. WE'RE SO GLAD THAT YOU ALL GOT GA. ON YOUR MIND,,,,NOW WE WANT TO SEE YA IN HOT LANTA IN JUN,,,DON'T MISS FORMATION,,,MANDATORY MUSTER. BE SAFE JIM
JIM OLIVER <OLIVER_31683@HOTMAIL.COM>
PEMBROKE, GA USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 07:15:00 (MST)

Hello flight, let me be the first one to say (this year).I have really enjoyed having this site to come to to chat with old and new friends. I hope everyone has a great and safe year. if anyone would like ... I only live about 70 miles from the boneyard in Tucson, if you want I can see what it will take to get a Huey that we can use for a static display. and let us all know what we are going to do about 431. I realize it was a pipe dream to think we could buy her, but I will be glad to help with whatever the unit desides to do. Later, Don
Don Miller <hogleg244@yahoo.com>
Valley Farms, AZ USA - Wednesday, January 01, 2003 at 00:51:09 (MST)